cap and ball in shoot

[law dawg]

In the latest issue of Shoot they have an article educating us newbies on shooting black powder.  It wasn't very Remmington friendly, I'm curious as to what ya'll think about the authors statement as a colt cylinder being easier to change out than a remmie.  It would seem to me to be faster with the remmie even having to wipe down the cylinder pin and breech face but the author didn't think so.  I haven't recieved my nmn yet but I did own a '51 navy for a short while and I can tell you getting that barrel wedge out of a new pistol without a bench and a third hand to hold the gun is  quite a chore.

[sundance44`s]

I must say with out causeing another remmie / colt war is ... when you get your remmie .. you decide , it won`t take ya long to form an opion .

[hellgate]

The advantages I would say that go to the Colt are:
-Ease of cleaning (3 part breakdown and access to the cylinder pin)
-Balance (my opinion, others have equal arguments to the contrary)
-Ease of capping during a "reload"
Remington advantages:
-Tend to shoot to point of aim (maybe file the front sight down a little)
-Much stronger action
-Holds more powder
-Easy insertion of conicals
-Far fewer cap jams due to narrow hammer slot
-Cylinder will drop out with ease (unless there's a LOT of cyl pin fouling)

Of my multitude of Colts, only ONE will allow me to push the wedge out with my thumb and that gives me the creeps even though it has not, so far, loosened during firing. In my opinion, the cylinder swapping out concept is not of any significance to me and was never a concern with their historical use. If a cavalryman wanted 6 more shots he carried a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) loaded & capped revolver (especially Souther irregulars). Cylinder swap-out is something that some shooters like to do so they can load up all their cylinders at home before the match and replace them after each stage. It saves time and the cylinders are always fresh. To me, I'd rather have more guns and not get my hands all sooty changing out cylinders. I reload my guns at the unloading table where I can make myself useful to the posse. It does not take that long to recharge once you get a rhythm established. I suspect the writer is not a regular participant in CAS matches using C&Bs. The  Remington is so simple to chamge cylinders that the writer's other opinions become questionable. The Colt is a little easier to clean but it really doesn't take me any longer for either a Colt or a Remmie. I have and shoot both kinds and don't clean them til the end of the match. However, my Uberti Remingtons tend to bind up sooner than the Colts so between stages I put a drop of oil on the front of the cylinder where it contacts the frame and jiggle the oil down onto the cylinder pin and I am good to go in about 5 seconds. I have two Remingtons that will shoot the whole match without binding (Euroarms NMA & NMN). I like them both. My absolutely most RELIABLE guns are the Remingtons (the gus go off and don't jam from caps getting loose). My fastest handling and almost as reliable guns are my 44 cal '51 Navies.

[law dawg]

I'm not trying to start a colt vs. remmie flame war, I was just trying to get others who have rems. to give me their opinion on the difficulties of changing the cylinders on the two styles of guns, and if the remmie gives as much trouble as author states.

[I Ben Robbed]

I'm one of those that loads up cylinders at home before a match and just swaps em out between stages.  Doing so allows me to wipe down the cylinder pin and keep the fouling down, and put a little more bore butter on.  One swipe with a cloth and one quick dab with a fingertip of BB each time, and it runs beautifully with no bind up at the end of the day.

My '51 navy is a royal pain to get apart quickly.  I cant speak to the 60/61 as I dont own one, but the ones I've looked at appear about the same as far as how they go together and come apart.  I realize experiences will vary as some guns come apart easier than others, but I'd say from my experience the Remmie is about 2-3 times faster to change out a cylinder as the Colt design. 

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Evidently the author hasn't done the tips to eleviate the fouling of the pin in a Remmy.Or the pin in his Remmy is very tight to begin with.  I have not had any trouble shooting 5 stages with two pistols either C&B or BP Cartridge. I followed some tips to eleviate the problem(not entirely, but very much) . One thing is to chamfer the Cylinder Pin Hole in the cylinder, the other is to polish the cylinder pin and then cut some grooves in the cylinder pin where it rides in the cylinder. These grooves are cut circumferencially about an 1/16" apart the length of the cylinder. This gives the fouling a place to go. I also pack the cylinder pin with as much lube(NON PETROLEUM BASED) as I can get into the cylinder. I lube the internals with Olive oil. and I too wipe down the pistol, Cylinder pin and the cylinder between cylinders. I have never had a problem getting the cylinder pin out at a match or at the range when I shoot way more than in a match. BP cartridge seems to foul MORE than the C & B.

Isn't any way in heck that you can change out a Colt Cylinder faster or easier than in a Remmy. JMO

[sundance44`s]

It just doesn`t take much to start a remmie vs colt conflict ...i don`t even own nor have ever shot a colt .. so if i have an oppion it just from me watching my pards shoot theirs .. i have shot a remmie off the back of a colt ! does that count ?   

[Arcey]

That was in 'Shoot', huh?

Had 'n shot my Navy a bunch.  Ain't had the Remington long.  I can tell ya quick the Navy don't hold a candle to the Remington in any respect except the fun factor of shootin' the Navy.

Maybe the author should actually use both thru a six stage shoot both before he/she writes another article.

Damn.  That sounds like fun.  Think I'll do just that myownself after Roundup.

..

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I have not shot a Colt and a Remmy in a match, but I have shot One C & B and one Cartridge Conversion in a match(Frontier Cartridge allow both) Both were Remingtons and it was a hoot to shoot the C & B. I changed out cylinders between stages and wiped down the pin, cylinder and innerframe, re lubed and rolled on.
I love a Colt navy, don't have one yet. but have owned several originals and clones. had them all apart several times each.
If, and I do mean if, you could thumb out the wedge so it falls out onto the loading bench jerk the bbl off , dump the cylinder, then jam another one on the arbor jame the bbl back on and replace the wedge with thumb pressure. Maybe it would come close to swapping cylinders in a Remmy, but the Greybeards with Remmies can do it in about 7-10 seconds. I can't and probably never will. but I highly doubt that a Colt can be dis-assembled and re- assembled in that time frame.

We need a video that shows that colt having the cylinder swapped out. The remmy shooter have one now. it is on the Walt Kirst webpage. Changing the cartridge konvertor is the same as swapping out c & b cylinders.

Other words...I'll believe it when i see it.
No war intended, I like the Colts('51Colt Navy is my choice as best hamdling and best balance and feel) as well as the Remmy's but.....

[sundance44`s]

Yea Dragoon talk about fast cylinder swapping .. back when i first started shooting the remmies , i had one and one extra cylinder (now 5), of course it was love at first sight .. i`d sit the remmie and extra cylinder in front of me while watching the tv at night ..and do the cylinder swap with out looking down ..the wife timmed me one time  5 seconds .. like to see a colt get back into action that fast !

[law dawg]

It's a well written piece a four pager.  My reasons for getting the remmies to begin with were for the ease of switching back and forth between cartridge and cap n ball.  I was a little set back at some of the comments is all.  I've never shot cap n ball, been kinda timid about it really no one I know shoots it and there seems to be so many different ways to do it and home brewed lubes that I don't know how to make it can be a little overwhelming at what I should do.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

There are a couple sites that'll help you a lot.
The High Road forum is a good one, read all the sticky's at the top.
http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=12

Voy Furoum http://www.voy.com/60048/  is another good one with lots of info and both sites have knowledgable folks.

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

There are no dumb questions if you don't know the answer. We all had lots of help and mentors when we started.

[Major 2]

Law Dawg
Your in St. Pete arn't you ?  I'm over Orlando way...
And a major Colt 1860 and the "51"  fan that said,  I only envied the Remingtons speed to swap a cylinder.

That's why I back up my C&B's with Opentops and Richards Conversions 

[law dawg]

I'm over in Tampa.  I'm poor so I won't be backing up the guns I buy with anything.

[Major 2]

maybe we'll swap stories at a range someday....

If we can get enough NCOWs minded people together.

Oh!  and if it weren't for the barter system, I have to use a homemade sling shot & a found rock !

[law dawg]

Sounds like we're cut from the same cloth.  We'll definately do some shooting, there's a w3g club at a range in Orlando called Central Florida Rifle and Pistol Club.  I have an interest in shooting that discipline one day as well maybe we can meet up and watch one  in the upcoming months and try to kidnap that third person and make a posse.  It'd be nice to know your one of the three original members of an ncows posse in the entire state.

[Major 2]

I was there yesterday , they (W3G) were suppost to be,  but no one was there.

I wound up a the Muzzelloaders shoot next range over.

I'll try for next month, and may do the State Champs muzzleloader shoot the third Sun. in Apr.

I got a list of NCOWs members here in Fla., but they are all over except central Fla &.
No Posse's at all in Fla. either ...

we gotta change that