Question about repro 1858 Remington .44 cap and ballss?

[Pistolero]

Hello all,
I have a quick question about the repro 1858 Remington .44 cal cap and ball pistols: A few years back I remember some talk about the different makers or brands of repro Remingtons. I had heard that while some are/were full size replicas of the 1858 Remingtons, I also heard at that time that there was one on the market that was sort of scaled down or something. I am not talking about the later Remington Navy model in .36 cal, but a smaller scale, slenderer 1858 Remington .44, like a 3/4 scale or something.

My question is; is that true? Were or are there 1858 Remington cap and ball .44s that are or were built slightly scaled down as opposed to a full sized exact replica? If it is true, who made it or if it is still on the market who makes it? Because I don't want some slender scaled down thing. If I get one I want the full sized, exact size and weight replica. So if there are differences out there, then who makes the most accurate copy or replica as to size and thickness of grips, frame, cylinder, weight, etc..

Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Pistolero

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I don't know if what I'm going to relate is what you want to know or not. Here goes.
Piettas are larger that the uberti. uberti is somewhat bigger than the Euroarms in the grip rame area and the frame also Recoil shiels is smaller as is the frame. The Euroarms has the original gripframe as far as I can see. it just feels better in my small hands and it is smaller than the Pietts in thoses area's Still weighs over 2 lbs. but balances nicely and to me it feels almost like a '51 Navy in it's balance and feel.  It feels like an original 44 Remington I once ownde. A smaller one that the Euroarms I have not heard of except the Lyman 36 Navy. of the 1970's
The Euroarms is in current production the Lyman isn't. Euroarms is the old Armi San Paolo.
ilove my Euroarms'58 NMA. In fact I'm selling my Pietta's to go completely with Euroarms '58 Remmies.

[Major 2]

I'm going to tell you the jest of the story the late Val Forgett told me.
Val of Navy Arms/Replica arms fame was instrumental in getting the first 51Colt Navies & the 58 New Armys built in Brasica.

He dealt with Aldo Uberti and the first Colt 51 reproductions were so close they even had a slightly misshaped trigger guard just like the original Val took over there as a model.
Val told me there was slight shrinkage in the cooling process and early guns were about 3% smaller due to that.
Uberti adjusted and they have the closest reproductions.
Armi San Marco , founder (part of the Uberti family, son I think) used Uberti castings
Early importer names were Navy Arms, Allen Arms,  Lyman, Euroarms, etal..



Pietta Bros. (later) cater to a segment of ham handed folks who prefer a larger grip and scaled their 58 NM Army repro larger accordingly.
So in essence Pietta scaled up in size
If you want the full sized, exact size and weight replica ... Uberti is it, unless you find early Navy Arms, Allen Arms,  Lyman, Euroarms.

hope that helps

[Oldelm]

 I would like to add  to what Charlie and the Major have already posted here, ...by showing you some comparison pics of my currently manufactured Uberti and Euroarms '58 Rem .44s.  As with Charlie, I have come to the conclusion that Euroarms is still manufacturing /offering a '58 Remington .44 using the same specs & tooling from the old Armi San Paolo factory,.....thus a frame size smaller than the Uberti '58 Rem .44

Here's a few pics showing for comparison a Uberti '58 Rem .44 cal (made in 2005),....and a Euroarms '58 Rem .44 cal (made in 2003)

The 5.5" Uberti is on top in the first pic.......



This is rear view of them with bores parallel and on same plane, with front of cylinders lined up. Uberti on right....



The Euroarms definitely has a slightly smaller sized frame, ....at least in the grip.  I e-mailed Euroarms and their rep told me they haven't changed the tooling from the original specs of the Armi San Paolos manufactured in the 70s,....which they claim was scaled to the same size as the original Remington Old Model Army,...the Beals. One thing Charlie pointed out in other discussions about this here, is that a characteristic of the Beals model was the squared off frame at the breech, with only one or a little more barrel thread showing. The later "New Model Army" had a forward leaning scoop of the frame at the breech,...leaving more barrel threads showing. The Beals also had a higher hammer spur, but I don't think that was carried over by Armi San Paolo in their replicas.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I didn't get any photos taken today but the comparison between the Pietta 58 Rem and the Euroarms shows the Euro has a smaller frame in addition to beig even shorter in the grips frame than the comparision photo above.  So for sure the frame is smaller in all dinensions than the Pietta, as you can see in the photo above the recil shields are smaller on the Euro too. I lined up the Pietta and the Euro with the bbls. and then I saw the frame differences, I knew about the gripframe difference but not the frame.

I'm interested what Oldelm finds out about his new Euroarms 36 Cal Navy. I have heard thast their frames are smaller than their NMA frames, which would be true if they modeled an Old Navy original.
Old elm will tell us the particulars when he gets it home.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Bottom Dealin' Mike had a post regarding this a year or so ago & he said that the Pietta was closer to the ORIGINAL (if I remember correctly)  than others & I second that. I have compared both. I have a Pietta '58 made in 1975 & it mirrors an original to a T IMHO.

[Lucky Deuce]

  I have a very old Uberti Remington repo that is all metric.  It is smaller than the Pietta's that I recently bought.  I bought it used and unfortunately, the previous owner had made the trigger pull almost non-existant.  I shot the heck out of it and finally it got so I cannot keep it cocked since the hammer is worn so smooth.  Great gun but can't get parts for it anymore...  I prefer the way it handles over the Pietta Remingtons I have.  I haven't tried any of the new Uberti's though to see if there is a difference...