OT: For Lars

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Lars, a friend from the bus garage had me look at some old guns he inherited to see if I could shed some light on them. One was a SxS in 16ga PINFIRE, underlever, ala Husky, with what appears to be fluid steel barrels. It has out side hammers, no wood forearm, sling swivels attached to the stock and underneath of the barrel. The is some engraving or roll stamping on the frame, tangs, and trigger guard. No maker address visible or serial number. It does have the 1893 Belgian proof mark under the right chamber and an R on the right top of the frame under where the barrel sits when closed. The under lever has another smaller lever under it. With an 1893 proof, would I be safe in assuming it was somewhere between 1893 and maybe 1900 for manufacture? Didn't think they made pin fires that late.
Is there any other info you might know about this gun you can share since it resembles the Husky's?........Buck

[Lars]

Buck,

The most common Husqvarna underlever guns have a French-designed underlever system, Lefaucheux, that was also widely used in Belgium. Your friend's gun is one of them. Actually, most of the middle European designs were/are widely used, especially a few that were really satisfactory, like the Lefaucheux, which was also easy to make. Many of these guns have no maker given, no matter what the quality, which can range from low to quite high.

The Swedish book I have about the Husqvarna shotguns from 1877 to 1977 lists pinfires available on one model up to maybe 1899 (text unclear), clearly up to 1879 on another model. I would presume there was a small, diminishing market for pinfires for quite some time after central fire was introduced. I have no information about the end of pinfire production -- who knows how many "special order" pinfires were made after general production ceased.

The R is likely the identifying mark of the person that assembled and finished the gun. Clearly, the gun was made after 1893, assuming you have IDed the proof mark correctly. The various underlever designs were made up to about the 1940s-1950s by Husqvarna and, I would presume, in Belgium too. My newest one was made in 1938.

The smaller lever under the large underlever is what attaches the barrels to the front of the lockbox (action, more or less, in English).

The barrels could easily be fluid steel, especially if it is a lower priced gun. The roll stamping, etching, etc. probably make it a mid range model. Damascus barrels were increasingly restricted to the higher guality, higher priced guns, up to about WW1. Damascus barrels, especially the higher grades, were a proven, superior product -- also an expensive one. WW1 did a lot of damage to the Damascus barrel making industry, which was totally dependent on highly skilled labor. In addition, the once inferior/poor fluid steels were becoming better and better and cheaper and cheaper, thanks to the world's evolving steel industry.

Hope this information is useful to your friend.
Lars

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Thanks, Lars. I neglected to say that he also has two fired 16ga paper shells for this with Selier&Beloit headstamps......Buck

[Lars]

Buck,

You or he might try some Googling to see what is out there today for pinfires. Every now and then I hear/read of someone loading pinfire ammo or buying it from somewhere (a small custom ammo loader?).  Who knows, a larger company, like Selier & Beloit, might be a modern source of pinfire ammo.

Lars

[Delmonico]

I'm going to jump in here, I know some pinfire shells were loaded at least into the 1990's in Italy.  I think they are still out there if you search.

[Delmonico]

Found this:

http://www.hammerdouble.com/

[Four-Eyed Buck]

One last question, Lars. I wasn't looking for it, but he wanted to know a ball park figure on it. I'm thinking a couple hundred, am I close?............Buck

[Lars]

Buck,

So much depends on condition and buyer. The comparable Husqvarna central fire is the M17 (midrange, with line engraving) or maybe the M15 (top of line for the system Lefaucheux) underlevers. In excellent condition these bring 350-500 dollars. If barrels much pitted, exterior dinged, bluing worn and rusty, etc. but still shooters, then down to about 250 dollars. Parts guns well under 200 dollars. With pin fire, I have no other reference I trust and no means of direct reference.

There is a little importer of Swedish and central European guns in New Jersey, forgot their name, that lists lots of old hammer doubles for sale. Don't remember any pinfires but I seldon go to their site.

Strongly suggest you/he check the "hammergun" website Delmonico posted, maybe go to  "www.gunshop.com" to the double gun BBS and ask there -- lots of really knowledgeable folks there, maybe even a buyer, especially if the gun seems to be a shooter. Might be interesting to know how that bunch of doublegun fans would respond to a 1893 or later pinfire!!!

Lars

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Finish on the out side isn't all that bad for it's age. Does have some of the usual BP pitting. One glaring problem it has is one trigger is missing. I looked close and don't think it was a single trigger mechanism. Pretty sure the back trigger is missing( left barrel). My guess is pretty close then......Buck