Swiss vs. Triple 7

[9245]

I have read previously that Swiss black powder and Triple 7 are nearly identical in velocity and both are about a third more thsn Goex and Pyrodex, is that correct?

Can Triple 7 and Swiss be used interchangeably with the same velocity expected?

What granulation of Swiss would then be equivalent to Triple 7 FFFG?  I'm confused because Swiss also has 0b.  Normally FFFFG is for priming only, but if that is the case what is 0b used for?  To add to the confusion the label on Swiss FFFG shows rifles while FFFFG shows pistols.  So is it that Swiss FFFFG is actually intended for pistols while 0b is intended for priming?  If so, how does Swiss FFFFG compare to Triple 7 FFFG?  Can Swiss FFFFG safely be used in lieu of FFFG? 

[Cap'n Redneck]

Firstly; I have zero experience with Pyrodex or Triple 7.  I won't touch that stuff.

Secondly; I DO have years of experience with Swiss blackpowder and the German WANO brand.

Swiss is considered to be 15% stronger than Goex.

"Olde Eynsford" might be the closest domestic blackpowder to Swiss.

I'd say Swiss 0b is for priming flintlocks when competing at "olympic" levels.
Us normal folks use Swiss 4Fg for priming. 
I know some of the serious target shooters also use Swiss 4Fg as a main charge in smallbore (.32" to .38" cal.) percussion and flintlock target pistols.

Don't get hung up in the "rifles" versus "pistols" logo on the labels.

Generally 3Fg is for pistols/revolvers/shotguns, and 2Fg is for long guns.

But 2Fg and 3Fg will interchange without any hazard.  In todays marketplace with shortages everywhere, get what granulation is available out there.

(an additional problem with using 4Fg or 0b priming powder in a percussion revolver cylinder is that some of the powder might spill out through the hole in the nipple.)

Finally, to add to the confusion:

Swiss Blackpowder have (or used to have) their own unique numbering on the powder cans:

#5 was "Cannon grade"
#4 was "1,5 Fg" (much used in "buffalo rifles", muskets & military high capacity cases.)
#3 was "2 Fg"   (with the rifle label)
#2 was "3 Fg"   (with the pistol label)
#1 was "4 Fg"   (flintlock priming powder)
#0b was "super-fine" flintlock priming powder.

Since this numbering was contrary to US "Fg numbering" they might have discontinued that practice in the US market.

[9245]

Firstly; I have zero experience with Pyrodex or Triple 7.  I won't touch that stuff.

Secondly; I DO have years of experience with Swiss blackpowder and the German WANO brand.

Swiss is considered to be 15% stronger than Goex.

"Olde Eynsford" might be the closest domestic blackpowder to Swiss.

I'd say Swiss 0b is for priming flintlocks when competing at "olympic" levels.
Us normal folks use Swiss 4Fg for priming. 
I know some of the serious target shooters also use Swiss 4Fg as a main charge in smallbore (.32" to .38" cal.) percussion and flintlock target pistols.

Don't get hung up in the "rifles" versus "pistols" logo on the labels.

Generally 3Fg is for pistols/revolvers/shotguns, and 2Fg is for long guns.

But 2Fg and 3Fg will interchange without any hazard.  In todays marketplace with shortages everywhere, get what granulation is available out there.

(an additional problem with using 4Fg or 0b priming powder in a percussion revolver cylinder is that some of the powder might spill out through the hole in the nipple.)

Finally, to add to the confusion:

Swiss Blackpowder have (or used to have) their own unique numbering on the powder cans:

#5 was "Cannon grade"
#4 was "1,5 Fg" (much used in "buffalo rifles", muskets & military high capacity cases.)
#3 was "2 Fg"   (with the rifle label)
#2 was "3 Fg"   (with the pistol label)
#1 was "4 Fg"   (flintlock priming powder)
#0b was "super-fine" flintlock priming powder.

Since this numbering was contrary to US "Fg numbering" they might have discontinued that practice in the US market.

Thank you, I had not considered powder loss through an uncapped nipple.

I did find an interesting video though:

https://youtu.be/t4Fmc0zlb3o?si=GzEkfvKjdhg8dCSk

How homemade powder stacks up against Swiss is anyone's guess though, probably not too well I would assume.  But still, interesting.

What about in cartridges like .45 Colt?

[Coffinmaker]

I haven't talked to Hodgden recently.  At least not since I retired, however the good folks at Hodgden use to caution that Triple Seven was NOT recommended for cartridge use.  Velocity wasn't the issue, pressure was the issue.  Triple Seven is not Black Powder and has pressure curves and spikes more akin to Smokeless Powder.  Even though it "Smokes" the formulation is more of a smokeless powder rather than actual Black.

[Abilene]

I haven't talked to Hodgden recently.  At least not since I retired, however the good folks at Hodgden use to caution that Triple Seven was NOT recommended for cartridge use.  Velocity wasn't the issue, pressure was the issue.  Triple Seven is not Black Powder and has pressure curves and spikes more akin to Smokeless Powder.  Even though it "Smokes" the formulation is more of a smokeless powder rather than actual Black.

Hi Coffinguy, what you are remembering is that Hodgdon said not to use 3Fg 777 in cartridges, 2Fg only for that.

[Cliff Fendley]

Skip the Triple 7 and stick with real black, Olde Eynsford was very close or even as good as Swiss but I haven't bought any since Goex opened up production again so can't testify how the more recent production compares.