Tell me about external hammered shotguns

Bugscuffle · January 04, 2013, 12:02:22 PM

Quote from: Camille Eonich on January 04, 2013, 09:02:29 AM
WE have redundant safety nets for a reason.

I agree with you 100% Camile. Just because it doesn't happen often, or even if it hasn't already happened at all, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be aware of the potential. Think of it like the "Gun Rights" issue. Congress has not yet taken our Second Amendment Rights from us, but it doesn't mean that they might try or that we should not take action to prevent it.

Sir Charles – "Bugsie; Don't overthink this. Nothing is ever entirely foolproof but I've never seen a shotgun go off on closing."

Lumpy – "I have seen many internal hammered SXS fire when the action is closed hard.

John Smith - OK Bugs, I've been to a whole lot more matches than you have, can't remember a ND with a shotgun.

Come on Pards, make up your minds, or is it that you just want to cast dispersions on ANYTHING that "The Liberal" says?

Red Cent – "Sometime back a few cowboys removed the locking mechanism and simply held them closed when fired. Ain't dangerous at all. Again, if it WILL fire, the thing is so close to closed, nothing will happen. Being so colse to closed, the hull will maiintain and the force of the shell firing will b no different if you hd the action closed."

If they did do this it is the stupidest idea I've heard of.

Red Cent - "As far as the action staying open, I believe I may have found cure. BTW, the "fix" for the Stevens is not for all the Stevens. The point where it is cocked is about 2/3 of the way of opening the barrels. I believe I can get the action to cock at the last inch or to of opening thereby relieving tension and it will stay open. I'll report back.

If by "the action staying open", you mean that the gun attempts to close itself after opening, you have already addressed this problem. It is a function of the overly powerful stock hammer springs. If you mean that it doesn't open all the way or far enough so that you can easily insert the cartridges into the chambers, that is a function of the length of the cocking lever (also called the cocking plunger in other articles). Please refer to this URL: http://marauder.homestead.com/Stevens311.html . Scroll down to the bottom and access the articles indicated for complete instructions. If you want to change the place at which the hammers come to full cock and the sears engage the triggers, then you are going to have to re-cut the sear notches, NOT RECOMMENDED.

Lumpy Grits · January 04, 2013, 12:06:30 PM

Bugscuffle · January 04, 2013, 12:30:03 PM

Quote from: Lumpy Grits on January 04, 2013, 12:06:30 PM

Lumpy - In the interest of being cordial and helpful to my Pards on this forum, if you will tell me what part of my response confused you I'll try to explain it to you monosyllabically, or would pictures be better?

Lumpy Grits · January 04, 2013, 12:35:10 PM

You crack me up.......REALLY

LG

Gen. Jackson · January 04, 2013, 12:56:01 PM

Quote from: Bugscuffle on January 04, 2013, 12:02:22 PM

Red Cent – "Sometime back a few cowboys removed the locking mechanism and simply held them closed when fired. Ain't dangerous at all. Again, if it WILL fire, the thing is so close to closed, nothing will happen. Being so colse to closed, the hull will maiintain and the force of the shell firing will b no different if you hd the action closed."

If they did do this it is the stupidest idea I've heard of.

WOW ! You have got to be kidding me. What kind of low I.Q. person would do this ( note - low I.Q. person is a politically correct way of saying retard ). I agree with Buggs completely. How stupid. And this is allowed in the sport ??

Even wimpy cowboy shells create enough pressure to blow off part of your face. And to think someone would simply hold the barrels closed manually is absurd beyond belief. In all my years of shooting many different type of firearms, your statement regarding said is the absolute worse that I have ever heard. Such folks should not be allowed to participate under those circumstances. Complete ignorance.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Allie Mo · January 04, 2013, 01:00:42 PM

Quote from: Bugscuffle on January 04, 2013, 12:30:03 PM
Lumpy - In the interest of being cordial and helpful to my Pards on this forum, if you will tell me what part of my response confused you I'll try to explain it to you monosyllabically, or would pictures be better?

Bugscuffle,

Your comment to Lumpy is not at all cordial. Nor was telling me I had a "hissy fit," when I called you on misquoting SASS rules.

Misquoting a rule is not at all helpful.

Now, you are trying to be helpful by telling experienced shooters who follow SASS rules how to deal with their shotguns.

The way you posted here it is hard to tell what you are quoting and what are your own words. That may have led Lumpy to use the

emoticon. It would be helpful if you used the quote button, like I did in this post, when quoting folks.

Allie Mo

Allie Mo · January 04, 2013, 01:18:29 PM

Quote from: Red Cent on January 02, 2013, 07:43:08 PM... Sometime back a few cowboys removed the locking mechanism and simply held them closed when fired. Ain't dangerous at all. Again, if it WILL fire, the thing is so close to closed, nothing will happen. Being so colse to closed, the hull will maiintain and the force of the shell firing will b no different if you hd the action closed...

Okay Bugscuffle and Gen. Jackson,

I must agree with you about one thing. According to PaleWolf Brunelle, spokesman for the RO Committee, this is an illegal modification as (P.3 SHB), "Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict. Firearms must function in a safe manner." The following is from the TG Wire and was posted in 2009, "The Wild Bunch made a ruling at Winter Range last night affecting side by side shotguns.

It seems that some shooters have disabled the lock up feature on their sxs so the gun will never lock up when closed. Evidently this allows for faster opening in order to reload.

The Wild Bunch has decided this is an unsafe condition and no shotgun that has been so modified shall be used.

So if ya got one with the lock up removed, you're out of luck. Those who use one at Winter Range after Thursday's meeting will be MDQ'd "

Regards,

Allie Mo

Major 2 · January 04, 2013, 01:25:36 PM

OK...I just picked up on this...
"Sometime back a few cowboys removed the locking mechanism and simply held them closed when fired"

That's NUTS ! and why was this not concidered an illegal external mod ?

Allie Mo · January 04, 2013, 01:26:55 PM

Quote from: Major 2 on January 04, 2013, 01:25:36 PM
OK...I just picked up on this...
"Sometime back a few cowboys removed the locking mechanism and simply held them closed when fired"

That's NUTS ! and why was this not concidered an illegal external mod ?

It is/was. Please read my previous post.

Major 2 · January 04, 2013, 01:31:16 PM

OK then, cooler/wise heads prevailed .... thanks

Gen. Jackson · January 04, 2013, 01:32:46 PM

Quote from: Allie Mo on January 04, 2013, 01:18:29 PM
Okay Bugscuffle and Gen. Jackson,

I must agree with you about one thing. According to PaleWolf Brunelle, spokesman for the RO Committee, this is an illegal modification as (P.3 SHB), "Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict. Firearms must function in a safe manner." The following is from the TG Wire and was posted in 2009, "The Wild Bunch made a ruling at Winter Range last night affecting side by side shotguns.

It seems that some shooters have disabled the lock up feature on their sxs so the gun will never lock up when closed. Evidently this allows for faster opening in order to reload.

The Wild Bunch has decided this is an unsafe condition and no shotgun that has been so modified shall be used.

[ ..... ]

Well that's a good thing, but you would think common sense would have won the day. Trust me on this; I know shotguns extremely well and have worked on dozens of them for trap, skeet and sporting clays. If you don't want your eyeballs blown out, or part of the upper top of your head to come up missing, then a person better make darn sure that that their SxS or O/U has a Greener crossbolt lockup or some type of under lug or they will need a neurosurgeon if they survive.

Rule of Thumb - If the monoblock does not engage the breech face with zero movement either laterally or perpendicular, then you have a problem that needs to be repaired.

Holy cow... just when you think you have heard and seen it all.

Hmmmm. I need to go get a freakin' smoke.

Allie Mo · January 04, 2013, 05:19:01 PM

Hi Folks,

I "talked" to PaleWolf about this as I could not find it listed as a MDQ in the booklets. He said, "That falls under the SDQ for "use of illegal/illegally modified" equipment." Two SDQ = a MDQ.

Regards,

Allie

Bugscuffle · January 04, 2013, 07:03:57 PM

Quote from: Allie Mo on January 04, 2013, 01:00:42 PM
Bugscuffle,

Allie: Your comment to Lumpy is not at all cordial.
Me: It wasn't any of your concern Allie. I was speaking to Lumpy, and he even took it in the right sense. Please see his response to this.

Allie: Nor was telling me I had a "hissy fit," when I called you on misquoting SASS rules.
Me: I was asking questions about the rules. Please go back to the beginning and read the WHOLE THING. The only part of the rules that I misquoted was when I referred to the grip as the "handle". What you took me to task for was from two different posts. I never claimed that I ALWAYS do cut and paste from the rule book and there are other reasons besides an exact quote that quotation marks are used. So, how about we put away our pistols and go about this as adults and stop bickering? I don't always point out your grammatical and/or punctuation errors. For example, "Your comment to Lumpy is not at all cordial. Nor was telling me I had a "hissy fit," when I called you on misquoting SASS rules. Why would you get that upset over using a wrong term? Putting the period after the word cordial and then beginning again with a sentence fragment is improper grammar. Do you see? None of us are perfect. Let's just call a truce and learn to live with the fact that we have a Liberal living amongst us.

Allie: Misquoting a rule is not at all helpful.
Me: O.K., but is that a reason to throw a hissy?

Allie: Now, you are trying to be helpful by telling experienced shooters who follow SASS rules how to deal with their shotguns.
Me: Are you referring to the suggestions that I made about the 311? If so you don't know what you are talking about. Just because I don't shoot matches regularly it doesn't mean that I don't know my ordinance. I'll bet that all those NASCAR mechanics know their cars inside and out, but have never driven a single race. I was speaking from the experience gained in doing several of these exact same guns both for myself and others. I defy you to show me an error in what I said about them. If you are talking about the rules, please remember that I was posing questions not recommending any rules changes. There is a big difference.

Allie: The way you posted here it is hard to tell what you are quoting and what are your own words. That may have led Lumpy to use the emoticon. It would be helpful if you used the quote button, like I did in this post, when quoting folks.

Me: Did you even ask Lumpy what he meant by his post, or did you just decide that you were going to tell us what he was thinking because you are clairvoyant? As I said before, look at his response. He took it in the right vein.

Allie Mo

O.K.? Can we let this drop it's getting tedious trying to answer every knee jerk reaction to what the Liberal has to say.