Win. Model 1887, 12 ga. black powder only?

Daybreak Dave · December 13, 2005, 06:52:08 AM

I am a newish SASS and NCOWS member (1 year). I've never shot yet. My interests have been collecting old lever Winchesters, 1866, 1873, 1876, 1892, and that is what led me to SASS and NCOWS. I would probably shoot originals, believe it or not. No hope of good scores, just the fun of firing a 120 year old gun and hearing it roar once more. Having never owned a Model 1887. I also am interested in a 12 gauge, early in the serial number series, as a collector and to shoot sometimes. How safe are these actions in general? Weak points? I assume you would use black powder only? Can I buy loaded black powder 12 gauge, or do I need to roll my own (I do not generally load shotgun)? Thanks.

Silver Creek Slim · December 13, 2005, 11:03:11 AM

If I had one, I would only shoot BP in it, because they were made for BP not Nitro powder. Not sure if you can buy BP shells because my understanding is the chambers are shorter than 2.75", so you will have to cut the shell to the proper length. Sorry, I can't remember what the proper length is right now.

Slim

Four-Eyed Buck · December 13, 2005, 11:05:46 AM

Original 1887's were BP only guns. The 1901's were smokeless capable, but only were available in 10ga. I've seen a few originals shot with reduced smokeless loads, but not many( at least in this area). A caution here, the originals were chambered for 2 9/16 or 2 5/8ths length shells. There are just now repros coming on shore from China, brought in by IAC. You can check with them on availability or look up Coyote Cap's Gunworks. Cap has been instrumental in getting these repros done........Buck

Daybreak Dave · December 13, 2005, 12:05:44 PM

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I checked in the Madis book on Winchester and 2 5/8 is correct length. I would not have thought of that. I doubt if I can find any repro. loaded 2 5/8 shells, probably have to make my own. I don't want to.

Does anyone know about the possible problem areas to look for in an original 1887 action as far as safety to shoot? I'm not looking to be a gunsmith here, just wondering what to look at before I purchase one if I intend to shoot it. I did read that the early ones had 1 extractor, and later they went to 2 extractors which did the job much better.

Four-Eyed Buck · December 13, 2005, 04:13:39 PM

Can't help you there as I'm not familiar enough with them. An E-Mail or phone call to Coyote Cap would probably get you the info you want as he's very familiar with them and the '97's.......Buck

Fly Cop Fry · December 13, 2005, 07:30:17 PM

Quote from: Daybreak Dave on December 13, 2005, 12:05:44 PM
I checked in the Madis book on Winchester and 2 5/8 is correct length. I would not have thought of that. I doubt if I can find any repro. loaded 2 5/8 shells, probably have to make my own. I don't want to.

You probably know more about this than I do, but IF a 2 9/16 will work they are available at http://gadcustomcartridges.com/#shotgun. From what it says on the site I'm not sure if they are brass but I'm guessing that they are. They will do the reload for you although it is not cheap!

gw · December 15, 2005, 04:33:31 PM

Dave--I have an early 1887 (4 digit s/n) with the single extractor in resonably good condition. If I had it to do over again, I look for the later double extractor gun as it will not always extract plastic cased shells. I have learned however that it will work a lot better with brass shells that are either new or resized for it's chamber. These guns are definitely black powder only----do not let anyone tell you otherwise! The area of highest wear in those originals I have seen is the frame surrounding the main lever hinge pin. It will wear eliptically and the lever will be loose in the closed position. This also means it's loose when the action is closed on a shell and the breech block will not be fully in battery. Mine has a little of this wear/play but does not seem to affect the function. I have measured my brass shells when new and they haven't "grown" in length after several firings. Be selective when shopping for one of these fine old guns, the are really a marvel of engineering and will never fail to feel "right" when you're shooting one. Good hunting!

GW

PS--Loading brass shotshells is alot easier than plastic!

SASS 5847
NCOWS 1437

Daybreak Dave · December 15, 2005, 06:13:03 PM

To GW,
Thanks for the reply, I was just going to call a guy about an 1887 tonight. I will quiz him about the presence or lack of lever slack as you say. The way you describe it, that is not something easily fixed if too worn.
Did you ever try paper shells for extraction? My friend who shoots black powder single shots suggests cutting down paper cases to the proper length, just wondering if they would extract OK.
Can you get replacement parts somewhere if needed, i.e. an extra extractor or mainspring?
One more question, I read that nearly all were rolled steel barrels, but damascus on special order. I would easily be able to tell a damascus barrel, I would assume?
Thanks,
Daybreak Dave

gw · December 16, 2005, 05:56:14 AM

Dave---I've got some paper hulls, just haven't tried them yet. The Winchester Book by Madis says all 1887's were rolled steel barrels, have to assume that is correct. It also mentioned the mainspring as a weak point in this model. Fortunately I haven't needed any parts for mine so I haven't ever looked for any. If you pick one of these up, let us know about it.

GW

Four-Eyed Buck · December 16, 2005, 09:34:25 PM

DD, If you go over to The SASS Wire, there are some posts appearing now about the new 1887 copies. They are starting to be delivered to eager cowboys. There are some pics posted on one of the threads by Kid Shane.........Buck

Daybreak Dave · December 18, 2005, 06:06:55 AM

Thanks for the reference to the SASS Wire, there sure are a lot of folks with good 1887 info over there.

I just bought one yesterday from a guy in CA. A first year gun in pretty good shape from what I could tell from the photos and conversation with him. Should have it in a week or so. I'll keep you posted when I get it. I'm sure I will have more questions. Thanks to all.

Daybreak Dave