44-40 WCF problems loading in pistol cylinder

[brudford]

 I have always used RCBS Cowboy dies for 45 long Colt , 38-40 WCF and never had a problem until I started loading for my new Uberti 1875 Outlaw . I'am using Starline brass , Lyman mold and Goex BP . All bullets are cast and run through a sizer . Some will drop in the charge holes and some have to be forced in . I'am guessing the problem is at the front of the cartridge where there is a slight bulge , which I cannot see with a naked eye ? I thought the RCBS Cowboy dies had the correct expander plug to avoid this and were designed for use with lead bullets ? Only thing  that I can think of to  try is to use a Lee 44-40 powder through expander die and replace the expander plug with a 44 mag plug . Any thoughts on my problem . Thanks

[Slamfire]

 I'v had the same problem ,, at  times ,, and it has always been ,, when I crimp,, " not all brass is the same " ,, just .002 ths. can make a bulge. Yes I trim,, and ck. the length ,, but one or two can slip by ,, worth ck'n.


coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[brudford]

 How about having a smith open-up the cylinder charge holes just a little ? I sent a e-mail off to RCBS , they tout their Cowboy dies are designed for loading lead bullets for Cowboy action  with all the correct dimensions ?

[Niederlander]

I have had the same problem.  In my case it was a slight bulge from the bullet being seated ever so slightly too deep.  That's a really thin case and bulges easily.

[Abilene]

Brudford, you didn't mention what size bullets..  That can make a difference in tight Uberti chambers.  If you use .427 bullets, doesn't really matter.  If .429 bullets, for instance, I have to stick with Winchester and Starline brass as those have the thinnest neck, and even then a few are iffy.  This is with Lee factory crimp die (and the Lee .44 mag expander in the powder-thru die).  Neck bulges from crimping can, as mentioned, also cause problems.

[Jubal Starbuck]

   I've had really good luck using bullets sized to .428" and crimped in a Lee factory crimp die. This combination worked well in all nine of my . 44-40s, rifles and revolvers both.

     Regards,

     Jubal Starbuck

[Slamfire]

 DITTO ! .428 dia. ,, tried a .430 dia. " once " !!!.

  coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[Coffinmaker]

Firstest things firstsist.  No two manufacturers cut chambers to a universal dimension.  No two manufactures cut Cylinder Chambers and Cylinder Throats to a universal dimension.  For the most part, ALL of the manufacturers are boring barrels at .429 inch groove diameter.  They are NOT at the same time cutting Cylinder Throats to addept bullets sized for this barrel diameter.

Chances are, you're going to wind up using bullets undersized for your bore to get reliable feeding for your handgun.  Your guns may also be picky about which brass you use.  You may be able to solve all of the problems by having your cylinder throats reamed to .4305 inch so you can use .429 or .430 bullets without problems.  Your chambers may also need some attention.

[brudford]

 Thanks for all the replies . All bullets sized to .429 , and Starline brass used . Think I will try to size bullet down to .428 and use the 44 mag expander plug . last resort will be reaming out the cylinder charge holes . Accuray might not suffer , I use 20:1 lead alloy mix . Should bump-up enough if throats/bores on the Uberti's are cut at .429 , I think I will also slug the barrel .

[Yeso Bill]

My Lee 44-40 expander measures .425" whereas the Lee 44 mag measures .426".  My RCBS "Cowboy"  44-40 expander measures .426".
While I'm at it, Dillon's 44 Mag measures .4255" and the 44-40 measures .4225".   

As Coffin Maker says, more than likely, you have tight throats. 

44-40 is almost impossible to load with no run out.  Starline brass is thin and if the nose of the bullet is cocked one way, the base will be cocked the other, distorting the brass.  And some of the brass might not be straight.  (I have a cigar box full of culled, crooked Starline 44-40 brass.)  As you have found out, thousands add up. 

I'm loading cast 1:30 or 1:25 sized 4305" bullets using a NOE .429 expander and have enough case tension.  (Smaller expanders create more run-out with that size bullet)  These don't fall into my pistols but I don't have to hammer them in either.   

Billy

[Fingers McGee]

I had the same problem loading .428 big lube bullets in Starline cases an crimping with RCBS crimp die on a Hornady L-N-L press.  One of my Uberty Cattlemen had tight chambers and would fail to chamber about 50% of what i tried to feed it.   I started using a Redding profile crimp die in the poition after the RCBS seat&crimp die and have not had a cartridge fail to chamber since.

[Cliff Fendley]

Lee Factory Crimp die.

I use RCBS Cowboy dies, don't crimp with them just close the flare and run through Lee Factory Crimp die.

The Lee Factory Crimp die will press the brass into the bullet if you set it down far enough so no need to undersize your bullets. I use the LFC with .427 in some guns and mostly run .429 sized bullets in all modern Uberti guns.

Did I mention Lee Factory Crimp die?

[FriscoCounty]

As Coffinmaker said, you have tight throats.  I can't chamber .429 sized bullets in my Smokewagons.  .427 works fine.  Haven't tried .428.

[eliwhitley]

I had the same problem. What I do is run a second sizing die without the deprimer pin as a final step. Cartridges work great

[Navy Six]

Take care to initially seat the bullet in the case as straight as you can. If not, the bullet can enter the case mouth a little crooked and the thin case neck won't compensate and straighten it out like a thicker neck 45 Colt would. You can then visually detect the "bulge', usually at the base, which would impede chambering. I went to the Redding Competition Bullet Seating Die for the 44-40 and 38-40 which is spring loaded and seats the bullet straight. I know they are expensive, but if you don't happen to have tight chamber mouths--and I did not--the Redding Die allows me to use .428 bullets without issue.

[Duck Creek]

Ditto on the Lee Factory crimp die. I load .427 dia. bullets in a hodgepodge of cases. Very few problems in my emf 75 Remingtons.

[boilerplatejackson]

I use the same final step as eli whitely on my 44-40 pistol rounds. It irons out the wrinkles, but is another step added to
the reloading process. You have to re lube your cases, but you have a very reliable box of cartridges. I also size my bullets to .427.

[Scattered Thumbs]

Lee Factory Crimp die.

I use RCBS Cowboy dies, don't crimp with them just close the flare and run through Lee Factory Crimp die.

The Lee Factory Crimp die will press the brass into the bullet if you set it down far enough so no need to undersize your bullets. I use the LFC with .427 in some guns and mostly run .429 sized bullets in all modern Uberti guns.

Did I mention Lee Factory Crimp die?

Plus one on the Lee factory crimp die for the .44-40. It makes things easier. 

[Bryan Austin]

I have always used RCBS Cowboy dies for 45 long Colt , 38-40 WCF and never had a problem until I started loading for my new Uberti 1875 Outlaw . I'am using Starline brass , Lyman mold and Goex BP . All bullets are cast and run through a sizer . Some will drop in the charge holes and some have to be forced in . I'am guessing the problem is at the front of the cartridge where there is a slight bulge , which I cannot see with a naked eye ? I thought the RCBS Cowboy dies had the correct expander plug to avoid this and were designed for use with lead bullets ? Only thing  that I can think of to  try is to use a Lee 44-40 powder through expander die and replace the expander plug with a 44 mag plug . Any thoughts on my problem . Thanks

You might find an answer here: https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/handloading

Sorry, I posted before I was done.

Most folks shooting the 44-40 seem to use the Magma style bullets. This bullet has a fairly deep crimp grove. If a roll crimp or even a hard LFCD crimp is used, it will bulge the case neck just below the crimp.

There are several solutions in the link I provided above but it might take some searching through the information to find a fix for your application.

[Bryan Austin]

Updated to include the neck bulge caused by crimping. Not everyone has this problem, but this can help.

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/handloading/crimpingcrumpledbuckled-case-issues