Gunsmith Recommendation - two open top conversion guns

[R.M. Conversion]

I have an 1860 and 1851 Ubertis, both with problems.  They haven't really run right since new - timing, cylinder jamming problems, etc.  I need a good recommendation - I've researched some and seen threads too often with:

"Sent my gun 8 months ago, guy doesn't return calls or emails... then when I finally got him said he'd finish it tonight and send the tracking number - but that was three weeks ago..."

Hoping to avoid that sort of thing.  I can wait a reasonable time for service, but I don't need a headache, really...

Thanks

[Bunk]

I was once told
"Send your guns to a gunsmith when you are young so you can enjoy them in your old age"
With some gunsmiths this is sad, but true.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

[Coffinmaker]

Well, your choices are somewhat limited.  You stated your gun are "conversions" however you didn't state exactly which ones.  Your biggest liability is they are Uberti.  They need help.  As far as a recommendation for a smith, I'm retired, so can't do the work.  The guys at Lee's Gunsmithing in California are also retired.  Next up would be Longhunters in Texas.  Also Mike Brackett at Goons Gunworks.  Mike produces some fine running guns.

Some of your problems you can address yourself.  Step one is stop by your local hardware store and get a package of #10 Stainless Split Washers.  Try dropping one down the Arbor Bore in the barrel lug.  That will probably stop the barrel jamming against the cylinder face.  You will want to reduce the Main Spring.  You can get a reduced Main Spring from VTI GUNPARTS and a set of Lee's Gunsmithing Gunfighter springs from Brownells.  The Lee's set will include a nice wire Trigger/Bolt Spring.  You can't properly do anything with the timing or much of anything else until you address the Barrel to Arbor fit.  When the cylinder isn't sliding around and being jammed by the barrel, you may find your timing to be ok.  Best of Luck

Came back to fix my spelling and stuff

[45 Dragoon]

TY,  CM !!

Mike

[Major 2]

Gary Barnes @  www.cartridgeconversion.com

[45 Dragoon]

Exactly what I was thinking!!

Mike

[Coffinmaker]

Oh fiddle styx.  I completely spaced HH (Gary Barnes).  OOPS.  Gary is superb with conversions.

[R.M. Conversion]

Thanks CM, and others.  I'll try the washer idea on the arbor too.

Yes, they are Ubertis.  An 1860 and 1851, both from Taylor's.  My 1872 (.44 Colt) from Cimmaron seems to run fine.

[Coffinmaker]

R.M.,

Hate to tell ya this, but your 1872 Open Top also suffers "Short Arbor Syndrome."  Short Arbor Syndrome is endemic with Uberti Open Top pattern guns.

[R.M. Conversion]

I'll add the washer to the '72.  Split washer?  Like a lock washer?  Or just a flat one...

Also been chatting with Gary at Conversions and sending my guns to him - also getting one of his Kirst Remington conversions, after seeing his work on Facebook.

[Coffinmaker]

I normally use a #10 Stainless Split Washer (yes, a lock washer).  It gives a good start.  I also use a fitted Brass Flat Washer,  Just takes a little longer to get the thickness right.

If you prowl around here on CAS City, you can find the Tutorials provided by Larsen E. Pettifogger for setting up and tuning Cap Guns and Open Tops.  Some entail a modicum of skilled work.  My solution of using washers is quick, simple, zero tools and the gun is ready for use in minutes.  Not really elegant, but effective.

Getting together with Gary Barnes is a very good plan.  Good on Ya.

[Montana Slim]

Look up my recommendations on the "bent" washer.
So easy, a caveman can do it.

Slim

[45 Dragoon]

Sorry, tried 4 times looking for bent washer, by slim, by Montana slim,  .  .  .    think ya could give us more of a hint? Help some of us apparently "lesser than cavemen"  folks  find  the "bent washer"  fix .  .  .

Mike

[Crow Choker]

RM-Tried the split washer route, but a better one I've found (IMO) buying getting three thicknesses of brass washers the same diameter as the arbor and finding what combination tightens things up. When reassembling after finding what combination of washers works best, I grease them up and they either stay in the arbor hole or stick to the end of the arbor upon disassembly. Just have to watch for them upon disassembly and remember how many there were. A lot of discussion on this the STORM and here on the Darkside, just search for it.

[Montana Slim]

Looks like searching for "washer" by Montana Slim would have given better result. I've cut/paste from a 2016 reply to similar topic:
---------------------
I've used a small standard steel washer that will drop down the arbor hole.
The washer alone is not quite thick enough for my pistols.

So.... I first turn the washer into a slight "V" shape (vise and hammer technique). Then place V-washer into the hole and assemble the whole works. If it doesn't "seat", I apply some moderate taps to the muzzle using a hardwood "smacker" until it gives the fit I'm looking for. Disassemble, smear a dob of grease on the washer and re-install. The grease will keep the washer from falling out unexpectedly.

You can use the overall thickness of the washer to later make a solid shim, or use JB weld, etc to more permanently attach the V-washer.

I'm still using this "temporary" solution (with grease) on a pair of 1851's. Only fired about 1500 rounds on each gun, but it's still working as intended.

Slim
-------------------
2020 update. I have two percussion Navy's mentioned sbove & two cartridge 1851 RMs all four which have the bent washers/grease still in place. I also have two 1860 Army percussion & two cartridge 1860 RMs that have factory correct arbors, all Uberti. The Army sets are consecutive SN.

[R.M. Conversion]

Been corresponding with Gary.  Very helpful and responsive to my questions and has had excellent customer service so far.

[dangt]

Coffinmaker,

I have been searching past posts for the answer to "why a SPLIT washer?" for taking up the space needed for a short arbor and have not seen an explanation.  I'd think the lock washer would just be like a small spring where something more solid of the correct thickness would be provide a more solid seat for the arbor end.

Does the lock washer of the size you usually recommend stay in place better without adjusting the O.D.?

[Coffinmaker]

  Dangt   

Ha !!  Funny you should ask.  Nobody has asked that question before.  BECAUSE!!  Well, almost.  I was working on an Open Top and wanted to fix the Barrel to Arbor fit "Right Dammit Now."  I had a Lee's Gunsmithing Gunfighter spring set on the bench, and whilst looking at the Split Washer, I went, well "I wonder" and dropped it down the Arbor Bore in the barrel lug and shoved it all together.  IT WORK'D.  Then I tried some stainless #10 Splits I had and they worked a little better.  The #10 Split actually sits down just a tad in the concave part of the Bore, and is just the right thickness to tighten up Open Top barrel to arbor fit.

I also use Brass flat washers fit to the ID of the Bore.  The flat washers, whether steel or brass, usually take a little fitting to the bore.  The Split just drops right in.  Just have to remember it's there when you take the gun apart to clean it.

So the bottom line IS:  (DRUM ROLL)  A fortuitous accidental discovery.  THAT WORKS.  It costs about .02 or .03 per gun.  I just keep a little baggie of #10 Stainless Splits on hand.  For Open Tops and R/M conversions.  A full washer is needed for a Cap Gun as the bottom of the Bore isn't solid. 

[Dick Dastardly]

At the risk of saying anything.  I'd recommend the Raven's Roost outfit down in Texas.  They do all the custom work for Walt Kirst.  http://fflgundealers.net/ravens-roost-gunsmithing.html

They do good work and stand behind their work.

DD-MDA

[Abilene]

Hi Dick, Raven (Jay Strite) retired and sold off a lot of his equipment and such last year.   I bought his first conversion from his collection.  You're right, he was very talented.