Skidmore's & Neet's

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I don't think shoe polish replenishes any of the natural oils. It's more of a wax.

[Capt Quirk]

It is, but it does also condition some. I hit the leather really good with neatsfoot after dyeing.

[Johnny McCrae]

Here's another one with just Neet's Foot Oil & Skidmore's. It has two coats of Neet's and one coat of Skidmore's. When it dries, the color is uneven. You have to touch up the light area's and the warm Florida sun does does the rest.

It's a Slim Jim Cross Draw to match a Mexican Loop holster I previously made for a friend. The Mexican loop was dyed with my home brewed Walnut dye.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

That's a great match on color. It's a great holster, too. Nice work!

[Cliff Fendley]

Really nice Johnny! That probably took a while doing all that backgrounding, it really turned out neat with the spots and all.

[1961MJS]

Hi Johnny,

How do you handle the edges?  Do you tool and sew the whole holster and then put the finish on?  The reason I ask is that I've made five experimental belts.  Tooling practice and since we're home for a while anyway, I'm playing.  I tooled, smoothed the edges, and put in the Vinegaroon.  The edges didn't take the 20 minutes of roon very well.  I looked at Buck's post and I didn't know to burnish before I tool which might help.  The sun dried, Neatsfoot oiled idea looks like something a working guy would wear, which is what I'm after for a new holster.  Nothing fancy. 

When in the process do you do the edges?  Two coats of oil?  Both the flesh and hide sides of the leather?

Thanks

[Johnny McCrae]

Howdy MJS,

Virtually all of the time, I completely finish a holster including the stamping, tooling and sewing. After sewing I sand the edges with a rotary sander then do the burnishing. After I do the burnishing I then do the dyeing. I wet mold after immersing in the Walnut Dye or Vinegaroon. The Holster is in the Vinegaroon for not more than 5 or 10 minutes. After the Holster is pulled out of the Vinegaroon, I slosh it around in a slurry of Baking Soda & water. After dyeing I do more burnishing with a piece of wet canvas or denim.

My usual procedure is 2-3 coats of "Pure" Neet's Foot Oil followed by at 2 coats of Skidmore's Leather Cr?me. Since I moved to Florida, I currently don't have any home brewed Walnut dye available so I may apply more coats of Neet's to get the desired color. Letting both the Neet's and Skidmores dry in the warm Florida sun really enhances the color.

If you have light spots on your edges with Vinegaroon, you might try Fiebing's Sole and Heel edge dressing.

[Trailrider]

I do not use Neatsfoot Oil on leather. (There are some products called by that name, that have other things in it that are okay.)  True Neatsfoot Oil was intended to be used on horses and cattle hoofs to prevent cracking. But those critters are growing live tissue.  But on leather the stuff can cause the fibers to break down sooner or later!

I will use topgrain veg-tanned leather, which I do whatever tooling and then dye with Fiebing's alcohol-based leather dye, followed, when the dye dries by an application of Lexol Leather Conditiioner to prevent the leather from drying out. I will do the sewing, and then sand the main seam smooth on a rotary drum sander, followed by an application of Sole and Heal Edge Dressing. When almost dry the edge is hand-burnished using a deer antler tine, followed by hand rubbed with a plastic edgw wheel on the corners. Then I hand rub to finish it. For colors using black dye or combinations, I will apply Bag-Kote, which seals the color, but allows the leather to breath.  I follow it all with an application of wax shoe polish.  That's how I do it.

[1961MJS]

Hi

Thanks you two.  I did some more experimenting.  I took my try-it piece of belt (cut off the end of a blank) that I used to work out how to make squiggly lines, put in the the Vinegaroon for 10-15 minutes, let it dry for three days, put one coat of Neatsfoot oil on the FRONT, and put Resolene on one end and Tan Kote on the other end.  The big different was NOT putting two coats of Neatsfoot oil on the BACK of belts.  The back looks fine with Resolene or Tan Kote either one, and the edge is stiff enough to make a nice clean edge.

By the way, the leather was from a package of belt blanks, with the holes for a buckle with center bar, that was the CHEAPEST thing Springfield leather had.  The squiggly lines look good, but got a bit faded because I didn't burnish first.

Later

[Cliff Fendley]

I've heard the thing about neatsfoot oil breaking down leather but when I was a kid things like lexol and all these things were not heard of around our parts and pure neatsfoot has been used on leather for generations in my family. I've still got saddles that my dad rode in the 1950s that were always been treated with pure neatsfoot and are fine and horse collars and harness that my great grandfather and grandfather were using in the 1920s before we had tractors in the family. All that leather was occasionally oiled with pure neatsfoot oil because that's all anyone in my family knew to use. So if it causes leather to break down I haven't seen it. The only leather that has broke down is stuff that was just neglected and left hanging up in the stripping room or dairy barn but any that has been kept oiled has been handed down and still with me today.

One thing you do NOT want to use is neatsfoot oil compound. Not knowing the difference got a small can of that when I was a kid and used on ball gloves and all the stitching came apart. Also one of my saddles had the stitching come apart so I'm guessing I must have used it on that saddle.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Nothing wrong with neatsfoot oil, the problem has been and is still the over use of it, which can turn leather into mush, I still use neatsfoot as part of my finish, but Skidmores for the final finish and then after just to keep the leather in great shape...


tEN wOLVES 

[1961MJS]

Normally I wouldn't post a Holster like this. It's nothing fancy, just a gift for a friend.

When we moved to Florida I gave away my home brewed Walnut dye. This Holster has three coats of pure Neet's Foot Oil followed by two coats of Skidmore's Leather Creme. I was pleased with the results. Each coat was put in our warm Florida sunshine for several hours which seemed to enhance the color. The Skidmores's application also enhanced the color.

I have yet to set up an area for leather working and do my work in our kitchen. The War Dept. loves that.

Hi Johnny, that holster isn't lined right?  How did you do the inside of the holster?  I'm doing a Will Ghormley Law Dog and plan on using that finish.  Chuck Barrow dies the inside and smooths it with Gun Trag on his DVD.  I have enough Gum Trag now.  Would smoothing with Gum Trag and putting it in the sun for a day work?

Thanks

Mike

[Major 2]

I wouldn't have thought of using Skidmores for that. I'll have to play around with that a bit. It might be good for many things. Guitar necks, for example. Maybe even an electric guitar body. I have one in progress and will experiment with one of the drops from cutting the shape on the bandsaw. Thanks for the tip.

Edit: are you using the cream, conditioner or beeswax waterproofing? Thanks.

Sorry I missed your question  I buy Restoration Cream for my shop.

this is their own statement though...

"By the way, our Leather Cream and Restoration Cream are the same thing. Yup, same product, different label. We're not trying to be sneaky...it's just hard to market "Leather Cream" to an antique store as a furniture care product"

[Johnny McCrae]

Howdy 1961MJS,

The Holster is not lined. I finish the inside the same way I finish the outside. The application of Skidmore's seems to make the inside nice and smooth.

I've watched Chuck Burrow's video many times. I use Gum Trag only on the edges but it should also work good on the inside. I'd experiment on a piece of scrap leather following Chuck's techniques to get the desired results.

On another note, Chuck's video took my leatherworking up a few notches. I loved to view his work.

[1961MJS]

Thanks Johnny

I have the cartridge loops in the sun roof of the SUV getting a bit darker.  No neetsfoot oil or Skidmores yet though.  I'll try a tooled piece of leather, do the flesh side with Neetsfoot oil, then Skidmore's, and other with Neetsfoot oil then Gum Trag and see what happens.  I worry that too much Neetsfoot oil will screw up the tooling.

Later

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

I like to use gumtracant on all my flesh sides and burnish them with a piece of rounded plexus glass antler tine, this smooths out the leather and then I rub in some Skidmores Leather Cream, I never over use Neatsfoot oil, just one application , too much and the leather will start to reject it and the leather will ooze oil, don't ask me how I know this...   this is where I disagree with John Bianchi's method of using Neatsfoot oil...

tEN wOLVES

[1961MJS]

Thanks Johnny

I have the cartridge loops in the sun roof of the SUV getting a bit darker.  No neetsfoot oil or Skidmores yet though.  I'll try a tooled piece of leather, do the flesh side with Neetsfoot oil, then Skidmore's, and other with Neetsfoot oil then Gum Trag and see what happens.  I worry that too much Neetsfoot oil will screw up the tooling.

Later

Hi again, I put one coat of Extra Virgin Olive Oil and one of Skidmore's on a piece of tooled leather and it's still firm, and the tooling looks good.  I haven't done the rough side with Gun Trag yet.  So far so good.
Later

[1961MJS]

Hi again

I put Neatsfoot on one of the straps as an experiment, EVOO is a much better thing to use even though the Skidmore's does seem to even the splotches from dripping the Neatsfoot while doing the edges.  Neatsfoot oil seems thinner and soaks in more quickly. 

Looking at the Xmas Wish List (Packing Iron) I noted that all of the sewing was done with white (or what used to be white) thread.  No brown or black thread, no sinew either.  There were some 1900 and later holsters put together with leather lace.  I was PLANNING on using the Tandy brown thread so as to make the holster look cheaper, but it appears it's white thread or the highway.

It also seems that the Copper Rivets were widely used in both Military and Civilian holsters.

later