Lyman dies and Crimping

[Crazeyiven]

I have loaded a host of old ctgs and have never had any serious trouble loading a bullet...until now.

I have been trying to load two bullets.  One is the BAC 350 gr, .512 bullet.  With the Lyman sizing die down as far as it will go (a hair off the ram), the bullet setter all the way out and the case sitting on the ram without the shell holder, the best I can get is a bullet that turns in the case.

The other bullet is a barnes 300 gr jacketed .510 bullet (specifically for the win 50-110).  Do not think it crimps at all.  Following the same proceedure as above, the bullet can, with slight pressure, be pushed back into the case.

These are smokless rounds (4227) and my experience has been and some mfgrs (like Accurate) suggest a "firm crimp" when using their powder.  So far, this has been a joke.  "Firm" is nowhere in site!

I have 50-70 & 50 2 1/2" sharps dies by RCBS.  I have no problem crimping with either set, in either bullet configuration.  In fact, if not careful you can crimp and wrinkle the case!  That will never happen with these dies!

Some on this site had indicated that Lyman had, in the beginning, had problems with the dies and they needed to be replaced to fix the problem.  This set had an inspection date of June of 2006.

I call Lyman and they sent another set with a RAR.  Just tried the new dies tonight (inspection date Jan, 2007).  Think they are worse than the first set!  The other set, when the shell was run into the seating die on the ram only it would at least stick a bit.  The new set the case just falls out.

I am using new starline brass, headstamped 56-50 spencer and the BAC bullets.

Any thoughts?  I am at a real loss here.  Any chance that the Lyman dies are set up for the originals (.520) instead of for the Taylor (.512)?

Some have indicated that they have had this problem and either sent them back or milled of part of the bottom of the die.  I do not have the tools to do the milling.....besides, it seems, if this is still a defect with the dies, they should correct the problem or quit selling them.

Anyway, for now, I am going to assume that I am doing something wrong or missing something (that and the RCBS dies are $268.00 from Midway with a 90 day wait).

Thanks again to those who read all this and my sincere thanks to those who have suggestions!

David

[Fox Creek Kid]

The Lyman dies were probably made for a 0.515 bullet & not 0.512. RCBS had the same problem with their 50-70 dies and people were using their 50-90 crimp dies for 50-70. I'd call Lyman and tell them. I use the CH4d dies (no Lyman 56-50 dies in 2004) and had to grind some things down.

[Grizzle Bear]

I couldn't get a good crimp on my .56-50's until I annealed the case mouths.

Grizzle Bear

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

I had to grind about 1/16 of an inch off of the bottom of the Lyman crimp die, so I could adjust the crimp to be heavy enough.  Also, once I started sizing the bulklets to .512, instead of .515 as they came out of the modified Lee mold, the bullet would turn unless I had a compressed charge in the case. I think the case expander is .515ish in the Lyma dies. Shortening the crimp die is your best bet. If you do that you can get a really tight crimp.

[French Jack]

Actually, the repro Spencers, (Armi) have a .512 bore.  The bullet size better for these barrels is at a minimum of .513.  Doesn't sound like much, but makes a huge difference.  If you need to have a smaller case mouth expander, remove it from the die, chuck it up in a drill, and use some emery paper on the spinning expander to make it a tad smaller.  The seating die can be easily shortened with a hack saw and file, then emery paper to smooth and finish end of die.  A dremel tool with a cut off disc makes quick work of shortening a die body as well. 

Another item, is that you need to tell Lyman's that you need dies for the 56-50 TAYLOR's,  or Starline cases, they are somewhat different for the original cartridge. 

[Crazeyiven]

Thank you all for your replies.

You all have given me some good suggestions.

Think I will call Lyman again and see if they do have a different die set for the Taylor as it does seem to be setup for larger bore diameters.

If that does not work I think I'll keep both die sets and try cutting off a bit of the bottom of the die.  This seems to be the fix if Lyman does not have a better solution. 

If this is the only solution, it does not speak well for Lyman.  My RCBS dies for my 50 2 1/2 will crimp my .512 cast as well as .510 jacketed bullets.  If needed, they will go down more.  Given a .512 bore diameter, the cast bullet should be .513 to .514.  The die should be able to crimp the .512.

If there are still issues, I'll try annealling.

Again, thanks to all of you for your help.

David

[Crazeyiven]

Gave it up and took a hacksaw and file to the bottom of the die.

That fixed it so it would crimp the .512, however, it still will not crimp the .510.

May try shorting it more.

Thanks for the responses.

David