1865 carbine

[mgmradio]

Hi Fellow forum members,
  Just picked up this very nice 65 carbine yesterday. 100% blue and probably 50% case color.perfect bore.
  It has a couple of interesting things going on with it though. First , the front band has a swivel. Possibly a Spencer or Sharps riffle middle band. Second there appear to be British (?) viewing marks on the barrel and frame.
  Hopefully with the knowledge of the members I can get some insight on the history of this weapon.

[DJ]

One piece to the puzzle:  the crown-over-V mark may be German.  As I understand it, the Germans passed a proof law in or about 1891 requiring firearms to be proved.  Some or all firearms that had already been manufactured were grandfathered and marked with the crown over V mark, the V standing for Vorrat or "on hand."  


During the Franco Prussian war (1870-71), the French bought tens of thousands of U.S. arms, including Spencers (rifles and carbines, models 1860 and 1865) as well as Peabodys and many other types.  The Peabodys were captured by the Germans en mass--many apparently before they were issued--and apparently made their ways to German arms dealers, where (if still in stock in 1891) they were marked with the crown over V.  These rifles are fairly common.  At least some Spencers traveled a similar path, and your 1865 appears to be marked as such.

Attached is a photo of the markings on a Peabody courtesy of Keith Doyon found at http://www.militaryrifles.com/Peabody&M/GerFrSpanPeabody.jpg that illustrate markings on a Peabody that appear similar to those on your Spencer.

[Oregon Bill]

What a lovely carbine! Congratulations.

[mgmradio]

DJ, thanks. That looks very close to my stamp. I haven't found a good photo of the London view mark that was also a crown over V mark.

[Two Flints]

Is this link    http://www.britishcarbines.co.uk/GunTrade.pdf   of any value in this discussion of proof marks - scroll down for variations of proof marks?

[mgmradio]

Two Flints, I saw that page when I was trying to research the mark. It's a different style ( imbosed ) instead of punched.
  Most of the London or other British crowns appear to be rounder than the German crown stamps.