The Best Bad Luck... E.N.Santa Barbara New Army.

[Tinker Pearce]

Picked up this Remington Repro today at Pinto's Guns for $100 in really excellent condition. Hell, a good quality repro from an unknown manufacturer... seemed like a perfect candidate for conversion to .44 Colt; the thick cylinder walls mean that the chamber won't be in danger of breaking through into the cylinder notch. Seemed like quite the deal- quality and fit and finish are excellent. Never heard of the company- E.N. Santa Barbara.  Got it home and looked it over and damn, it's nice! The bluing bears more resemblance to vintage S&W that C&B repro. Locks up like a bank vault, zero endplay, and the cylinder gap is .004"! The grip is shorter than is typical on modern repros- abut the same as a navy colt, so my pinky wraps under the grip nicely. Overall it's very elegant. Very comfortable compared to a Pietta or Uberti. An excellent revolver that should make a fantastic cartridge conversion. Oh, and Pinto's has a Howell drop-in conversion for $100, so if I convert it for sale as a C&B I can sweeten the deal with that... Just goofing off I dropped in my Kirst .45 Colt gated conversion. Worked fantastic.

So I did a bit of research, and things got complicated...

E.N.Santa Barbara is a Spanish military contractor that has been in business for over 460 years. They made these in the 70's and 80's. OK, so far so good. While typical C&B reproductions are made from low-allow mild steel these guns are made from modern, heat treated chrome-moly alloys. Excellent! If I do a conversion to .45 Colt (with a 5-shot cylinder) I can use modern ammunition, jacketed bullets etc. Internal parts are also heat treated. A perfect gun for a cartridge conversion.

Ummm... oh. They are also the gun-of-choice for European competition shooters. They have a devoted collector community and are actually worth real money. Someone is selling one on Gunbroker with a $998 'Buy it now' price.  Maybe crazt-high, but they do seem to be worth some money...  So I got an absolute steal on this gun for $100- good luck indeed! But now I feel it would be like chopping up a perfect USFA, and modifying it is going to seriously piss some people off.

So, the perfect gun at the perfect price... and I don't know what to do. Flip it and buy a lesser gun for my next project- or convert it and have it be my pride and joy...

I really just don't know what to do.

[45 Dragoon]

Yep, really nice examples. I have one as well and would like to sell it. Barrel is too long and don't want to cut it. If it was a shorty, I'd put a conversion cyl in but it's not. I don't shoot cap guns (in their natural state) so, best answer is to make someone else happy!!

Mike

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Tinker -

PLEASE DON"T CHOP IT!

as you have found:
The Santa Barbaras are like the holy grail of the Remmy copies.
They are very close to the original size , weight, grip size, etc.
they are made of the best spanish gun steel.
they are usually well timed with hardened internals.

sooooo ....
my humble advice, choose one:

1) flip it
2) trade it
3) make it the first piece of your new "high-end" remmy collection.

yhs
prof marvel

[Major 2]

DO NOT CHOP IT,  Use the R&D if you like..... but don't gate it either.

you should do two things,  smile at your good fortune & buy a Lottery ticket !...now !

[Tinker Pearce]

OK, no ax for this one I think. The temptation is strong- I mean, where else can I get a remmy made from proper steels with tempered internals to work on? It would make a gun for the ages, lol. But still... I suppose it's better it go to a collector, or someone who wants to shoot it as-is.

*sigh*

It's like being given a perfect canvas and being told not to paint on it.

[Professor Marvel]

*sigh*

It's like being given a perfect canvas and being told not to paint on it.

My dear Tinker -
I understand exactly.

I myself have had the fortune of obtaining, FOR A PITTANCE
- an original 1840ish London part octagonal(with wedding band)  flint fowling barrel, with gold inlay at the breechplug and a platinum flint vent
- original short  London damascus percussion double barrel set, with inlaid lettering on the rib
- original percussion .40 cal target rifle from a locally known Iowa maker (but the stock is well, sad)
- all the parts for a Rogers and Spencer for under $70
and a couple other such items

most of which are hanging on the shop wall, well oiled and fondled, as they are (at this time) too good for me
by which I mean I am not yet up to the challenge of building the kind  furniture that they absolutely need.
(except the R&S heheheh )

so, I am in no rush, as of yet...

if you are in severe pain over the dilema, I am quite certain someone here would be happy to buy or trade with no loss to you...
I myself have oh, easily half a dozen or so project remmies sitting, waiting patiently ..... (hint)

or, heaven forfend you might Keep It!
adjusting a cartridge cylinder to fit it instead of the other way around, could be the perfect solution...

yhs
prof procrastinator

[Major 2]

I'm with the good Professor's ....


" or, heaven forbid you might Keep It! "


I'm of the opinion when fate assembles to your good fortune ....one shouldn't mess with the KARMA  

I happen on a Spanish Orbea Brothers S&W ? Colt like Copy, it is circa 1916  that was sent to France.

Someone brought it to my FFL/ Ex LEO.... saying she "wanted it out of the house ....."

I gave him $50    


OH yeah!  and another EN Santa Barbara

[Major 2]

BTW the interest in the Spanish SW/Colt ...really spilled over as I studied its linage (maker & French use)

Course this photo from "Lonesome Dove" was cool too , some prop master's boo boo is a neat conversation piece    

[Long Johns Wolf]

Check out this website if you are looking for Infos on in the Santa Barbara New Model Armies and Navies: www.santa-barbara-1858.org.
Long Johns Wolf

[Tinker Pearce]

Check out this website if you are looking for Infos on in the Santa Barbara New Model Armies and Navies: www.santa-barbara-1858.org.
Long Johns Wolf

Thank you- that's where I found the information that made me question modifying the gun to begin with. However tempting it is I will be moving this gun along unmolested.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Well, it is a tough decision, TP.
If it were me I would go the conversion route to .44 Colt if you want a six-shooter.
I had one of those made a few years back.
My project gun was a Uberti from the early 1970 not a SB, however.
If I were to do it again I would use a SB!
This Remmy conversion is one sweet tack driver.
In my opinion the .44 Colt is ideal if you wish to have a Remington New Model 1863 or a Colt 1860 Army percussion revolver replica or re-issue transformed into a period correct six-shooter conversion.
Long Johns Wolf

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Tinker -
just so you know what you have....

I am glad you researched Santa Barabra Remingtons, and that you found http://www.santa-barbara-1858.org

regartding price info:
around 2006 EU list price was ~  500-600 Euros (600-710$),
compared to a new Pietta or Uberti only 300 (355$)

simpson's had an engraved one for $450
https://www.simpsonltd.com/products/z24214

and as of July 2018 a fellow had a beat-up Santa Barbara in gunbroker
Asking Buy It Now of $600 but auction starts at 450

and here is one on GB now, plain, "as new" asking just shy of $1K

[Tinker Pearce]

Well, a buddy of mine made me a nice deal- traded another gun and cash; it was a good 'between friends' deal.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Congrats. Nice turnover, there.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Tinker Pearce, would you care to let me have the S/N of your SB, please?
It is for the guy running www.santa-barbara-1958.org out of Germany.
He wishes to add yours to the data base of the SB website.
Because he has problems with the registration and/or log-in here at this US-forum.
Thanks,
Long Johns Wolf

[Tinker Pearce]

Tinker Pearce, would you care to let me have the S/N of your SB, please?
It is for the guy running www.santa-barbara-1958.org out of Germany.
He wishes to add yours to the data base of the SB website.
Because he has problems with the registration and/or log-in here at this US-forum.
Thanks,
Long Johns Wolf

I'll get it and post it here.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'll get it and post it here.

Isn't it better to PM LJW with the S/N?

[Tinker Pearce]

Isn't it better to PM LJW with the S/N?

Yes, I suppose that would be better.

[riflee]

I've got two of the Spanish Remingtons. One great shape plain model and one deeply hand engraved at the arsenal in Spain. The hans engraved is really an work of art. Fine art in form and function.


I've never been one to have to chop or modify certain guns that are limited in number and somewhat collectable. That lessens the number of original left in the world for future generations. I figure it's best to leave certain guns as they are for posterity. 


I repair old somewhat collectables so they are rescued from the junk designation so they may be cared for instead of further abused.


There are only so many E.N. Santa Barbara Remingtons left since plenty of them are probably already trashed and worthless already.


I know how it works. If a gun is getting pretty trashed then it seems to end up in the hands of habitual trashers and further abused.


Just my personal way.....leave the good ones alone and just care for them well since.......we only rent them for awhile since we can't take them with us.


What would a nice E.N. Santa Barbara be worth to someone two or three generations from now?  They are the best made and maybe better made steel wise then originals. 


Sure a person could modify nice guns and make them super nice and valuable to certain Folks but.......then it'd just be a super nice collectable relegated to modified collectable.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Just my personal way.....leave the good ones alone and just care for them well since.......we only rent them for awhile since we can't take them with us.

A friend of mine, who is gone now, was a Colt collector. He built a concrete vault inside a large steel shed with a heater and humidty controler in it. His collection was amazing. Many hundreds of them, some quite rare. He told me one time that he didn't own them but it was his place to watch over them while they were in his possession.