Cimarron .44 Spl. Open Tops

[Coffinmaker]

 
Well ...... I have been explaining to folks for years what they will get with an Uberti Open Top.  A "KIT."  The Open Top has alway been that way and has not been improved by Uberti since day one.  Just the way it is with the Open Top.  Actually .... ALL of the Open top design guns by Uberti, whether a Suppository shooter or percussion.

At this point you have choices.  I personally like choices.  Choice number one is to return to the distributor and ask for a refund/credit.  Choice number two is return to the distributor and ask for Mr. Fixit (not real likely).  Choice number three, is download the tutorial from Larsen E. Pettifogger and make them wonderful.  Choice number four is have someone else make them wonderful.  Choice number five is strip them, use the Barrels and cylinders on your "perfect" 38s to run them as 44s and interchangeable as 38s. 

Once the Barrel to Arbor fit was corrected on my Open Tops, I added barrels and cylinders for all three cartridges.  What a treat!!!  Lots of choices.  One thing to remember, chances of getting a pair of Open Tops that are actually correct ........ not real good. 

[Tuolumne Lawman]

 I must be under a blessed star or something!  I am 5 for 5 that were great.  Not so lucky though on the two ASM Type Is I had!

[Cliff Fendley]

While most of the Italian cap and ball guns or open tops that I've purchased were functional out of the box nearly none or completely acceptable. I alway plan on having to do some degree of work on any of them to get them to my satisfaction. Actually even though they are much better and getting better all the time, even the rifles and SAA type guns always require some amount of "tuning"

Then sometimes you just wind up with a kit and I've thought why didn't they just throw all of the parts into a box without assembling them. LOL

[Crow Choker]

Funny - not!

I gave an honest appraisal of what I received from Cimarron after a four month wait.

Guess if I had waited four months and been dreaming of them I'd be contacting the dealer/distributor/Cimarron to make them right. I've bought a few percussion and a Richard/Mason conversion from Taylors and have had excellent luck and service with them. They advise no gun leaves their business without being checked by a gunsmith. Taylors do offer the Open Top in both Army and Navy frames but only do so in 45LC and 38 Spec calibers, same with their R/Mason models. Don't know why no 44's, maybe Cimarron has an agreement with Uberti. ??. I've found over the last ten years or so Taylors has cheaper prices in parts vs VTI and Cimarron, just sayin.

Well ...... I have been explaining to folks for years what they will get with an Uberti Open Top.  A "KIT."  The Open Top has alway been that way and has not been improved by Uberti since day one.  Just the way it is with the Open Top.  Actually .... ALL of the Open top design guns by Uberti, whether a Suppository shooter or percussion.  

Yes and no Coffinmaker. I know you always contend this, but alot of owners/shooters of Uberti open top style revolvers be they be percussion or conversion type have expressed they've had no problems with their Uberti firearm.  Tuolumne Lawman in his last post stated all five of his were fine. My thought is the workers at Uberti differ in attitude at the assembly line and inspection station. Many need an attitude adjustment hour. If it's the higher ups pushin for faster production, maybe they need it and/or a different vocation. While I got a bummer OT at first, the 2nd one was fine metal/metal fit and finish except the need for arbor washers and a new bolt. As I stated in prior post, my Richards II is a prince charming, fine out of the box. The R/Mason 38 needed just a little tweaking. Eight of my ten percussion hoglegs are Uberti, all run timing wise with five stars. I believe maybe half needed arbor washers, all I did to the eight was some fine stoning to the innards, same as I did to my two Peitta's. I'll agree with ya on the fact that a lot of the Uberti's have poor arbor fit, sort of their calling card to a lot of their shooters it seems.

Coffin I know you've worked on umpteen more shooters than I ever will and have vast more experience with them, but to label them "All KITS" IMO is an overstatement. I've been around handguns and shooters since the late 60's, have seen many gun come from Smith, Ruger, and Colt that needed tweaking and TLC by manufacturer and/or owners, a few of em myself. I know by your posts you prefer Pietta's, but they aren't "lily's in white" either. Not saying that Uberti doesn't need to do better quality control wise and distributors need to make sure they're selling quality products, esp when they contend what they sell is 'top shelf' and receives extra this and that. If I were Mike Harvey or the gals at Taylors, I'd be on Uberti's case. No excuse for letting Q control slip as it does from time to time. Oh well, love your posts Coffinmaker and like banterin' with ya once in a while. Agree with your five choices to PJ, but would add a 6th, return for two OT's in 44 Spec asp (!!!!) that don't exhibit the problems he's having. My choice!  If every gun produced was 100% to the good, be they handgun or rifle and everyone could shoot 1" groups or better, we'd have no fun tryin to do better accuracy wise or improving the operation of the things. Be no challenge. Have a good day.  

Late edit: Good post Cliff Fendley!

[Coffinmaker]

Well heck Choker .........

I really don't want to step on anybody (wanna Bet??).  But there are differing definitions of "fine."  There are those whom think if you have to adjust the seat of the wedge to keep the barrel from binding the cylinder face, that's "fine."  Or bash the wedge to get the cylinder back far enough to give reliable ignition, that's "fine."  NO .... IT ISN'T FINE.

You yourself cited your own personal examples of having to "tweak" and adjust your guns to get them running.  Over half of them actually.  The other half, had I taken them apart ..............

I'll be honest.  I'm a Gunplumber (now retired) and twas my job to look for things to fix.  If you talk to ANY of the other Smiths who work on Open Tops, ALL will report never having received one that was correct.  Yes, I do prefer Pietta.  Easier to set up.  Never claimed they were perfection.  The list of what needs done is pretty extensive. Besides, Open Top guns are FUN!!

[Crow Choker]

Coffin... Yer right in the definition of "fine" and a shooters definition of. Thought of that as I typed my post and afterwards. All kinds of levels as to what a shooter expects from a firearms function and how they define "fine" action. I don't shoot any of my percussion or cartridge revolvers at speeds some of the "wanna be fast gun slingers" at SASS shoots do. If you or any one would maybe try any of mine there'd be those who think I should get a tune up. I've had shooters hand me their six shooter and say it had a greased lighting action, but to me it was gritty. My cartridge OT styles are fast shooters, but I don't hammer away at them. Not my style of shootin. If I did a lot of SASS shootin, I'd probably be one of those who had good scores, clean stages and such, but time wise never win any prizes (not that I can't thumb bust the crap outa of a revolver and lever the be-jiggers out of a rifle), just not my thing. (one of my objections to SASS-speed shooting-my opinion/like NCOWS format better).

For the record, when I "tweaked" my hoglegs, it wasn't to get them running, they did so outa the box and probably for the most part shot without any "tweaking". It's just my thing to smooth up any burrs and rough spots no matter how I get em. Yep, you'd probably find needed tweaking in my stable. Come on over and up to North Central Iowa, I'll furnish ya all the coffee and homemade cinnamon rolls ya can consume while ya "tweak" my stuff. They probably all run better, always room for improvement.  

[PJ Hardtack]

I haven't heard back from the dealer as yet. It's likely I'll be offered an exchange or a credit. I'll be checking into their return policy this am.

In the meantime, I can't return them as their is a Canada Post strike in progress with THOUSANDS of parcels tied up in the pre-Xmas rush.

In the meantime, you guys have fun bashing each other (and me) about who does what best. All of us have opinions based on our experience.

As for mine, it's been a 50/50 split as to what works and what doesn't out of the box.

[Major 2]

Touchy subject this  as you say " All of us have opinions based on our experience. "

....hope you have harmonius outcome

[PJ Hardtack]

I now have the permission of the dealer to return the guns for their examination and inspection, at my expense for shipping and insurance.

This is going to be a long progress .....

[riflee]

   Always find out what the dealers warranty description is before you buy. The Cimarron repair or replace is what they offer and the repair  is their first choice I'd bet. Been there done that. Returned a revolver for so they took their option to repair. Beat the arbor with a hammer to fix a wedge problem where the wedge went all the way in and the barrel was still loose on the frame. I complained about a so called smith beating on my new gun with a hammer like some kind of monkey. They gave me a replacement gun. It too was defective with an off center firing pin hole and misfired all the time.

I discovered that it would fire consistantly using reloaded ammo with CCI primers .  The anvil with those are a little different than all the others. I still have the gun so I load for that with the right primers but......that is different compared to all my other guns with that same caliber since primers from different manufacturers are not all available all the time. Can't find CCI primers sometimes.

The second defected gun I have now I will have to weld the firing pin hole and re-drill it in the right place and all. It would be too big of a hole if I just make it bigger and reconfigure the firing pin. 

Anyway  I bought the gun from a shop that quaranteed they would warrant the gun for any problems and replace it. When the time came it was , " you have to deal with the Cimarron people".  I did get to M. Harvey and was agitated by the response but...... it was my fault for not reading the Cimarron warranty options.

You can buy Uberti Cimarron guns from some dealers who will deal back with Cimarrom for you if there is a problem.

[PJ Hardtack]

Wolverine Supplies, the dealer I ordered my guns through, offers 100% customer satisfaction, or words to that effect.

I won't accept guns that have been worked on by their 'smith as he is likely not going to well versed regarding the ins and outs of Open Top revolvers. What are they going to do re: the drag mark on the cylinder anyway? Refinish the gun? I think not.

I'll accept another pair, which means they will have to deal with Cimarron, or 'repair' the guns themselves and sell them as 'shop demos'.

Other than that, I will opt for a credit towards the purchase of a Spencer carbine in 56-50, a firearm which I have no experience with. I may just be getting my next headache, but that's the way things go.

At least it will be a new challenge.

[riflee]

Spencer Carbine? Get two ,one fer each side, and go well healed.


Don't fret it too much. You'll figure it out to have a harmonious outcome. Might end up with two new pistols and a new carbine.

[PJ Hardtack]

I generally don't sweat things beyond my control - which is just about everything!

I practice the "Three Foot Rule" which means if it's outside my arm span, it's beyond my control. That's how I survived stage four cancer and a few other inconveniences.

[Major 2]

Quote from: Major 2 on November 19, 2018, 04:03:22 pm


however, lemonade is sweeter that whine   
.............................................................................


Funny - not!

I gave an honest appraisal of what I received from Cimarron after a four month wait.

Good luck on your next Cimarron purchase .....

Funny - not!

I gave an honest appraisal of what I received from Cimarron after a four month wait.

Good luck on your next Cimarron purchase .....

My point was misunderstood,         I meant , your wait was so long, might be better to tune (lemonade) aid what you have than wait still longer, Spend on shipping etc.

I did not mean to poke salt in the wound

[PJ Hardtack]

Apologies for being so touchy. A sign of my disappointment with the guns.   

[PJ Hardtack]

I heard back from the dealer asking me what my pleasure is regarding the revolvers - do I want to order another pair, have a credit or ..... ?

I told them I did not want another pair and preferred to put the money towards a Spencer carbine in 56-50. Always wanted a Spencer!