Spencer rifle, original, having problems with feeding from magazine

[Chandler]

I have been working on my  model 1860 rifle s/n 22502 in preparation for firing. I have had this gun for years on the wall and now want to fire it.

The rifle is very clean and has all original parts in seemingly excellent condition.

I have several original 56-56 rounds and they will not cycle with an original upper block.

A friend gave me 56-52's and they will not cycle reliably with a centerfire block from BACO.

I cannot see any possible adjustments except possibly the follower spring and that is in the original position I understand that the spring can be adjusted forward or backward. Other than that, I do not know where to turn.

[Chandler]

This is probably a false alarm on my part. Not to say that I did not have a problem cycling yesterday, but I really think my technique may have been the problem. Today, I cycled ok, making sure there was no hesitation in the  lever cycle and making sure the rifle was tilted a bit to make it easier for the ejected case to fall free.

Chandler

[El Supremo]

Glad you found a solution:

Just for the record, does the cycling effort/resistance seem the same when testing with either the original rounds or the Starline + Rapine 350 bullet 56-60's we briefly tested at Ft. Shenandoah earlier in Oct, please?

At least for me the Spencer cycling involves "shoving, almost jamming" the round instead of "sliding" it into the chamber.  There is a point in lifting the lever where there is resistance that feels like a blockage, but continued lever lift effort forces the bullet nose past that spot and then chambering is smooth. Thanks.

El Supremo/ Kevin Tinny

[Chandler]

I don't think I could make any distinction between the originals and the centerfire. When the jam occurred the action just came to an abrupt stop. I tried coaxing the round in but that did not work. What I did find was that after the jam occurred, if I lifted the bullet guide, the round would then slide in. This suggested to me that the downward force exerted by the guide was actually pinching the side of the round against the edge of the chamber. It further suggested to me that maybe the amount of downward force could be reduced, possibly by adjusting the location of the springtip pressing against the aft bottom of the guide. That spring can be moved a little forward and back, but it's location is governed by the wood-screw buried in the small hole in the stock. I did not play with that and other than that, I do not know where else to look. The magazine follower looks good. The spring looks good.The block looks good. Must be the operator.

[Two Flints]

Pete,

Read all these posts on your feeding problem . . . not sure what ammo you're using?  You mentioned original 56-56 and 56-52 rounds in your first post . . . maybe there are just compatibility issues with the original rounds and the replacement BACO centerfire block you're using . . . have you tried any other ammo?

Two Flints

[El Supremo]

Hello, Peter:

Suggest waiting to make any adjustment to the wood screw depth until the cycling of the RMC 56-56 rounds can be tested.  That is the ctg that has to feed.

I have several original cartridge feed guide springs with slight differences in leaf lengths and probably stiffness. Will be happy to loan them to you to see which might help.

All the best,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[Blair]

Pete,

If you look at the "V" spring for the cartridge guide, you may find one finger is a little longer than the other. Try turning the spring over and see if that may change spring tension on the cartridge guide. Just a thought?

Your SS# seems pretty high for a "Rifle" (not a Carbine). You may want to check that you are using the correct cartridge for your Rifle?
Also, some of the new made center fire brass cases may have "rim" diameters that are a bit too large to fit properly into this chambers area. Dirt in this area may also cause chambering issues.
One other thing you may want to check, Some of these guns were dry fired a lot!!! This may have caused some peening in the rim area of the firing pin reses in the chamber. The solid head brass modern cases could be hanging up on this deformation.
Hope these thoughts may help.
My best,
Blair

[Trailrider]

You have some original .56-56 ammo. But it is a historical fact that, depending on the manufacturer, there was considerable variation in the dimensions of these rounds!  Also, bullet shape may be playing a part in any feeding problems. With a centerfire round, you need to be careful to have a meplate (nose) that is slightly larger in diameter than the primer pocket, to prevent an inadvertent magazine explosion!  With the magazine in the buttstock, right next to your face, it could ruin your whole day! 

[Chandler]

Kevin, thank you, I may take you up on that. Cycling is not trouble free for me. I do get hang-ups, it may be me but it should be 100% nearly all the time and it just isn't so with me.

[El Supremo]

Hello, Peter:

The cartridge feed guide spring is not a symmetrical "V" in profile.

On the ones of mine that seem ok, there is a bottom leg that is flat and approximately 1.137" between its tip and the outside of the bend.  

The upper leg, which has an upward ARC near its tip that rides against the underside of the rear flat of the feed guide, is approx. 1.840" between the bend and tip.

I have seen original springs that had up to .125" leaf length variations.  These created different pressures on the feed guide. 

Also, cycling smoothness/resistance can vary with the tension of the lever screw on the lower receiver sections that might pinch the lever.

In Marcot, on page 30, is a copy of Patent 36,062, dated July 29, 1862, showing BOTH the patented blade extractor AND a set screw in the top, rear of the receiver to control the pressure of the feed guide spring.  The profile of the two spring legs is also shown.
Guess Christian Miner knew all about the spring pressure issue.  Hmmm.

Just text or email me when you want a few springs to try.

Your quest is sure fascinating. 

All the best. 

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny