Scenes on Colt cylinders info please.

Sundance · December 01, 2005, 06:42:01 PM

Looking at pics of original Colts I notice they don't always have the naval scene on the cylinder.
My only experience of Colts is my own repro Pietta 1861 Navy which depicts this Naval battle.
A friend of mine has just purchased second hand a Pietta .44 Army that also shows this Naval scene, seems a bit odd to me as this is designated the Army model.
Also noticed that some Dragoon repros show men on horses
Can anyone enlighten me of what battle etc ....

Dai.S.Loe · December 01, 2005, 06:57:21 PM

Somewhere in the far recesses of my mind I seem to remember that the reason for the Naval scenes was to do with the maritime engagements between the US and Mexico in the war prior to the Civil war.

A sort of commemoration.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Please elaborate if you are able.

Dai.

Lone Gunman · December 01, 2005, 07:11:34 PM

The cylinder engravings on the Walkers, Dragoons and early 1848 "old model pocket pistols" depict a battle between Indians and the U.S. Mounted Rifles aka Dragoons.

The later 1849 "old model pocket pistols" had a stagecoach holdup scene.

The 1851 & 1861 Navy models depict a battle between the Texas and Mexican Navies on May 16, 1843

The 1860 Army models also have the Naval battle scene, haven't ever read why the 'Army' pistol had a 'Navy' scene.

Dai.S.Loe · December 01, 2005, 07:21:37 PM

Thanks LG

I knew there was a Naval battle in there somewhere.

Dai.

Major 2 · December 01, 2005, 07:49:31 PM

Sam Colt never missed a chance to promote the virtues of his product.
About 180 of his Paterson No. 5 revolvers had been sold for use by the Texas navy, and presumably saw action in their engagement.
Colt would have us believe that a battle among several large sailing ships with huge cannons blazing away was decided by the effectiveness of some .36 caliber revolvers. Therefore everyone should have one of these if they want to win their next battle.
The Model 1851 Navy and .44 caliber Model 1860 Army both used the Texas Navy "Engaged..." scene.
Why the 1860 Army ? No major US Army Battle after 1851 - 1860 to depict

The .31 caliber 1849 "Pocket Model" shows a stagecoach robbery scene where the bad guy is being thwarted by an armed passenger.

Steel Horse Bailey · December 02, 2005, 02:52:29 PM

Now that you know what the engravings are all about, I'll tell you the main reason that they are there.

Among other things, Sam Colt watched how other gun companies ran things. He was fond of engraving his guns to "show them off." He was also very concerned at the probability that certain Italian and Belgian arms companies would copy his Colts and sell them cheaper. So, he had his engineers come up with rolled engraving. This way, the customer would know he had bought a real Colt and not a counterfeit.

Sundance · December 02, 2005, 04:53:36 PM

Ah I can always rely on you guy's to educate me. Cheers. Yes I can see that it would make it harder for a foreign company to replicate using this technique - at that time..

Dick Dastardly · December 02, 2005, 05:52:50 PM

I'm wonderin' whut would work best for "lifting" an engraving off a gun without damaging the gun. I'm thinkn' some kind of thin tough paper that cud wrap around the cylinder and then doing a "gravestone" rub with a soft pencil, maybe? Any ideas? I'd like to do a collection of old west gun engravings but I'm not sure what the best way would be to get them.

Any suggestions?

DD-DLoS

Prof. A. Wickwire · December 04, 2005, 11:35:44 AM

Dick,

You could also remove the cylinder from the revolver, paint it with a non-acidic ink and roll it across the paper like an old roll stamp.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

Grapeshot · December 05, 2005, 08:18:17 AM

Hey Lone Gunman. Just a side to correct a minor, but common mistake.

Dragoons were the two original regiments of mounted cavalry and were armed with carbines and sabres as well as the saddle mounted pistols be they single shot percussions or the Colt Dragoon series. Their piping and facing colors were Orange.

The Mounted Rifles were, in effect mounted Infantry, they would ride to a battle, dismount and fight as Infantry/Riflemen keeping the flanks secure. Their main weapon was the M1841 Rifle, a pair of Saddle mounted Pistols and a heavy sabre. Their piping and facing color was green.

Just prior to the Civil War the 1st and 2nd Dragoons and the Mounted Rifles were redesignated as Cavalry and given the Unit designation of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Cavalry Regiments respectively.

The Original 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Regiments of Cavalry, which were authorized in the late 1850's, were redesignated as the 4th, 5th, and 6th Cavalry resectively. After this all Cavalry Regiments wore Yellow as their facing and piping color.

Hope this is helpful.

Chance · December 05, 2005, 01:32:53 PM

DD if you look in some of the better Colt reference books you will see diagrams of all of the Colt cylinder scenes.

Dick Dastardly · December 06, 2005, 08:24:36 AM

I'll take a look at some Colt reference books and see what I kin learn. Problem is, I'm thinkn', that others besides made engravings and I'd like to collect them too.

What is needed is.

1. Safe to gun method.
2. Good repeatable detail
3. inexpensive process
4. long lasting result suitable for framing.

There's learnin' goin' on here.

DD-DLoS

Chance · December 06, 2005, 12:36:04 PM

HI, again DD
Is this the sort of thing you are looking for?

Dick Dastardly · December 06, 2005, 12:43:31 PM

Yup Rimfire,

That's it. Looks like you found what I'm lookin' for for Colts. I wonder if there's a publication with graphics like that available for any other brands and reproductions?

Thanks,

DD-DLoS

Chance · December 06, 2005, 12:53:25 PM

You ought to be able to find books on Manhattan and Metropolitan arms, both of which I believe had rolled cylinder scenes.

Dick Dastardly · December 07, 2005, 08:59:11 AM

Thanks Chance,

I did note, after careful study, that the scene from the Walker Colt cylinder you sent depicts savages in wild flight, and soldiers in hot persuit. Several soldiers are holding smoking pistols, probably Walker Colts. I did further note that nobody is stopping at the casino. . . .

I'll take a long look at our library.

Thanks,

DD-DLoS

Scattered Thumbs · December 07, 2005, 11:06:52 AM

Quote from: Dick Dastardly on December 07, 2005, 08:59:11 AM
Several soldiers are holding smoking pistols, probably Walker Colts.
DD-DLoS

That would be the battle of Walker's Creek between the Texas Rangers and the Comanches. The revolvers used were Patterson Colts.

Dick Dastardly · December 07, 2005, 05:34:26 PM

Thanks Scattered Thumbs,

You have just illustrated my need for further study.

DD-DLoS

Remington Kid · December 07, 2005, 08:31:58 PM

Dick, You may want to get the book "Percussion Pistols and Revolvers" History,Performance and Practical use.
This book was written by Johnny Bates and Mike Cumpston. It's fairly new and has great information about a lot of BP pistols and revolvers and pictures.
On page 79 it shows that Colt cylinders had the "fight with the Indians" another had a "stage coach robbery" and another was a"navy battle with ships".
I purchased this book from Amazon.com and it was well worth the price. Mike

Remington Kid · December 07, 2005, 08:48:16 PM

Dick, Once this opens click on the picture of the Walker and you can see the three sence.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.americaremembers.com/Products/WSTRE/WalkerSes.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.americaremembers.com/Products/WSTRE/WSTRE.asp&h=995&w=1652&sz=621&tbnid=3t0E-4jeRZwJ:&tbnh=90&tbnw=150&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3DColt%2Brevolver%2Bcylinder%2Bscene%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG