Update--now with video: Uberti 1866 SRC--a few precautions

[OD#3]

Editing, rendering, and uploading to Youtube will take a while, so I don't know when I'll post it.  But I decided to chronicle my work on a stock 1866 SRC from Cimarron.  First, I don't know why ANYONE would shoot one of these before first disassembling it and giving it a THOROUGH cleaning.  Coffinmaker, you've posted before about machine swarf in these, but I was unprepared for the abundance of both brass and steel shavings inside.  I don't even know why there would be steel bits in there, but they were as numerous as the brass shavings.  I guess I tend to forget how much work I've done on a rifle when I subsequently compare it to another.  For instance, when I compared my Uberti 1873 to my Miroku '73, I was actually comparing the Uberti post home-gunsmithing to an out-of-the-box Miroku.  But with the work on my 1866 basically completed, though I give the nod to Uberti for a more authentic rendering, the Miroku products are head and shoulders above Uberti in quality.  This may be the last Uberti I buy.

Although purchased new and levered (by me) less than five times before I broke it down, the tips of the action springs already had significant wear.  The average Joe who buys one of these, unless he's a serious CAS guy, probably isn't going to get into the guts for a while, and I shuddered to think what kind of damage that rifle would have done to itself had some average Joe bought it instead.  

One interesting observation about the lever.  This rifle shows a production date of 2014.  But the lever still has a replaceable cam.  That made it easier for me to work on it, because I could remove the cam and not worry about buggering up the rest of the lever while I stoned away that odd angle.  But the replaceable cam was puzzling, because I thought this was discontinued long before 2014.  Speaking of which, why are Uberti lever cams higher on the outside than the inside?  This seems guaranteed to wear out the action spring tip, but it doesn't appear to be the result of sloppy machining; it looks very deliberate, and it took a good deal of time to stone this square.  

Thanks to Coffinmaker for his previous posts about positive slam-down modifications.  My '66 is in .45 Colt.  And while my case neck annealing procedures have eliminated blow by problems for me, I elected to perform this mod. just in case.  Fortunately, my hole drilled square and centered, and the tapping went smoothly.  It really ended up textbook and I saved myself $35 bucks by not purchasing a spare lifter arm first.  Since I'm not a competitor, I elected to only purchase a spare when/if I ruined the stock one.  

I scrimped a little more and elected not to purchase one of the aftermarket ladles.  I know that the Uberti one isn't as authentically deep as the aftermarket ones, but the Uberti one looked nice enough.  I reinforced it by making and fitting a steel rib behind the tab and silver-soldering it in place.  I surprised myself by getting it right the first time.  

Now for the problems.  I don't know how Uberti managed to install the bolt, because it just would not come out no matter how much I finessed it.  Ultimately, I had to just pry it out, cursing and sweating and worrying about ruining the frame.  There was no bevel on the back of the bolt to ease its passage out, so I ended up filing one myself prior to reassembly.  There were already scoring marks on the boss in front of the rear frame toggle pin from Uberti assemblers' ham-handed installation of that bolt, so I don't know why they didn't just bevel the rear like all the other ones I've seen.  The mainspring had deep grind marks across the top from left to right.  It was a spring failure waiting to happen.  The hammer face has a peen line across it from contact with the firing pin extension.  This is the second Uberti I've owned with that malady.  On my 1876, I stoned it smooth and had to Kasenit the face to keep it from reappearing.  Is this just a common thing and self-limiting, or have I just been unlucky?  I haven't addressed it on my 1866 yet; I'm waiting to hear from you all about that.

On the plus side, I actually managed to remove every screw without buggering up any--even the band screws and the magazine plug.  BUT, I just noticed tonight after reassembly that the front sight is canted.  Evidently, it is pretty easy to twist the front band prior to tightening it down, which cants the attached front sight.  I hadn't considered that before I removed the magazine tube.  I'm thinking that I'll have to take a screwdriver with me when I sight this one in and periodically loosen the front band, twist the sight, and tighten it back down until I have the shots centered.  I expect this to be an aggravating and tedious range trip.  

Of course, I had to remove the magazine tube and clamp it in a barrel vice to get the magazine plug out.  But when I managed to remove the plug without damaging the slot (miracle of miracles), I briefly entertained the idea of removing its threads and drilling and tapping it for an original style retaining screw.  Ultimately, I postponed that idea for lack of suitable screws and taps.  But has anyone done this?  Reinstalling the plug to a snug but not "Uberti trained gorilla" tight fit left it clocked to the left slightly.  It is unsightly to me, but at least I can remove it for cleaning now.

I'm pleased overall with how this came out, and I expect that my memories of all the work required will fade in time, leading me to have a higher opinion of Uberti than I really should.  I'm really starting to question what matters to me more--authentically shaped internals and design, or quality in construction.  I chronicled some slicking up work I did on my Miroku '73 recently (which only took a few hours, compared to the 8-10 I lavished on the Uberti).  I haven't edited that video yet either.  But despite its obvious departures in internal construction authenticity, the build quality superiority over Uberti has inspired me to put a Miroku '66 in 44-40 on my "wish-list" at several distributors.  If enough time has passed that the 8-10 hours work I invested in the Uberti has lost some of its significance with me, I just may put the Uberti up for sale.      

[Coal Creek Griff]

Nice report.   I'm looking forward to the video!

The hammer face on my Uberti 1876 developed a similar mark, by the way. I slightly shortened the firing pin extension, but left the mark on the hammer.  I don't have marks like that on my other Ubertis ('66, '73, Henry).

CC Griff

[OD#3]

Thanks for your info on hammers.  Coincidentally, I ended up shortening the firing pin extension on my 1876 as well.  What surprised me was how hard the extension was compared to the hammer.  I had difficulty filing it shorter and wondered why it was that Uberti seems to have access to very good steel for their extensions but elects to use much softer hammers.  At least that is how it appeared to me.  In addition to shortening the firing pin extension (I had no idea how much shorter to make it, so I just guestimated that it could lose at least a sixteenth of an inch and still work), I stoned the hammer face smooth again and immediately encountered incipient peen marks again.  So I re-stoned it and hardened it with Kasenit.  It hasn't peened since, but the case-coloring was destroyed during the heating process required to Kasenit.  I hate to do that with this 66.

[Coffinmaker]

Hi OD#3 and All,

Folks use to look at me askance when I explained how much time it took to set up Uberti rifles for competition.  After I explained it, some of these same folks realized I was practically giving away my time.  However, if I had charged my actual shop fees at $63.50 an hour, I doubt I would have had many customers.

The maladies you have pointed out are ALL common.  Nothing at all new there, been that way since ..... forever.  The Uberti guns are all horrendously over sprung.  Because of that, the guns will wear rather rapidly.  The angle on the lever cam is designed to wear a little slot into the spring to hold it in place.  It doesn't work very well.  The side plate will keep the spring where it belongs.  ALL of the springs are full of stress risers as well and need to be cleaned up .... a lot.  The problem with the extension rod and the hammer is also quite common.  Reducing the length of the extension is not necessarily .... good.  First thing is to reduce the firing pin return spring.  It's too heavy.  The peening of the hammer is a result of too heavy Main Springs and too heavy firing pin return springs.

I hope you also scrubbed the factory supplied rust out of the Mag Tube.  After scrubbing out the mag tube, I suggest a Stainless mag spring and stainless follower.  When you re-install the end cap don't forget some anti-seize lube on the end cap threads.

I would suggest a set of after-market lever side springs from Slixspring.  Some fitting will be required.  I also suggest either grinding the Main Spring or an after-market mainspring from "The Smith Shop" or Slick Magic.

Coffinmaker

PS:  Once the hammer face peens a little bit ... it just stays that way.
PSS:  The Carbine barrel band will allow the Mag Tube to twist in alignment, shifting the front sight.  No matter how tight you try to und the screw.  I always mark the barrel and band with tiny punch dots once I get the from sight "right."
PSSS:  Normally, I just throw the Uberti barrel band away and install a big bead band from Pioneer Gunworks.

[Coal Creek Griff]

The peening on the hammer that we're seeing indicated that it wasn't striking the firing pin extension squarely.  It was creating a groove/line on the hammer face.  It looks like it was hitting the bottom edge of the extension.  That's why I shortened it.  I wasn't sure how much I wasn't to take off either, so I didn't take much--probably not even enough to make a difference...

CC Griff

[Coffinmaker]

CCG,

What your describing is ..... normal for Uberti.  When you reduce the length of the Firing Pin Extension, you must not reduce it until it disappears into the frame.  It needs to stick out a couple of Thou.  Even then, Until the Man Spring is reduced, it may still peen.  The Extension is quite hard.  The CCH on the hammer is only about a Thou deep.  In all actuality, it's just cosmetic.

Coffinmaker

PS:  Almost forgot.  While you have it apart, inspect the back wall of the Carrier Block Mortice.  The bottom of the wall needs a tasty bevel to ease feeding and squaring up your first round (last one loaded). 

[Coal Creek Griff]

Thanks, Coffinmaker.  Fortunately I didn't take off very much of the extension.  In fact, it probably wasn't enough to make a difference anyway, but in the process it did get polished pretty nicely!  I didn't touch the hammer face since the marks are pretty much cosmetic anyway.  I had already reduced the springs by quite a bit, although the mainspring could probably be reduced even more.

Back on topic (kind of), OD#3, I appreciate the videos that you've posted on YouTube.  I know it takes a bunch of work/time, but I'm looking forward to your new ones!

CC Griff

[Mike]

A lot of work and most people would not be able to do it, same as I like these repro's. I am glad I dont need to buy any more new ones.

[treebeard]

This and other posts on the Uberti drawbacks makes think that Miroku Winchesters are the way to go especially considering that there does not seem to be significant price advantages to Uberti's. Seems like a huge amount of work to correct faults on a brand new rifle.

[OD#3]

Unless you want to shoot NCOWS.  Miroku's shorter lever throw (sort of a semi short-stroke) makes them illegal there.  Shame....

[Cliff Fendley]

I've been very impressed with the action quality and how clean they are on the recent ones I've seen. Uberti has other issues but they seem to have stepped up their game on action and cleanliness.

My wife got a new 73 for Christmas and it needed hardly anything other than lighter springs. The action was very nice and well timed right out of the box from Cimarron.

[Coffinmaker]

Treebeard,

If you desire a Miroku to lead a long and happy life, it also needs to have it's springs reduced.  I also understand, Miroku also copied that stupid bent tab Ladle for their reproduction.  That will also need to be fix'd.

Coffinmaker

[Cliff Fendley]

Plus the Miroku has the ugly safety bolt which I would have to replace immediately. There is no reproduction gun that doesn't need to come apart and be tweaked as soon as it's taken out of the box.

Naw I'd still give the nod to Uberti for CAS. I'd just as soon fiddle with the Uberti tight screws and maybe some machining crud (which I have not seen in the ones of late). Other than some spring work and smoothing a few parts I really don't have to go to buying actual replacement parts for the Uberti since I don't use short strokes.

[OD#3]

Sorry it is taking me so long to post any videos.  When you're filming as you're disassembling something for the first time, there are going to be long awkward pauses and uninteresting ramblings.  There was a LOT of editing required to try to make this shorter, more concise, and less boring.   Even then, I don't think this will be a popular series on Youtube, as I ended up with over an hour of video.  So I broke it down into Part 1 and Part 2.  Each is about 1/2 hour, though Part 2 is a little shorter than Part 1. 

As of 10:30 PM EDT on 17 April, only Part 1 is available; Part 2 is STILL uploading to Youtube, even though I started the process at 1:30 this afternoon.  When you film in 1080 at 60p and keep the resolution that high during rendering and uploading, it takes a LONG time to upload to Youtube.

I doubt this series will be a popular video on Youtube; most folks just won't sit through a 1/2 hour video, so I know this will only appeal to a niche few.  Part 1 is best described as my review of Cimarron's import of a Uberti 1866 SRC as I disassemble it for the first time; sort of a "reaction" video.  In Part 2, I will detail my positive slam-down modification, ladle reinforcing, and my slicking up procedures.  It is not without some trepidation that I post these, laying bare my skills and lack thereof.

Anyway, you can find Part 1 at:


I'll reply here again as soon as Part 2 finishes uploading and processing.

[OD#3]

Finally!  This took forever to finish uploading, but Part 2 is now online: