reloading 56-56 spencer

[Cav Trooper]

I know this has been hashed over forever but more questions than answers. I have a 56-56 which I converted to center fire and proceeded to buy a bullet mold and dies to roll my own. I have CH4 dies and I don't remember the mold but it is a healed bullet type. Is there a definitive book or packet of info on how and what to use to load the 56-56? I've read countless articles about different mold, brass oal etc. I have Buffalo brass and cut down starline also. I read about having to ream but can't get a clear answer as to how to do that, is it a taper reamer, if so, who has them? Do you compress the powder? Since I could not figure out how to crimp what I have, I have been RTV glueing the bullets in, they work for as you can imagine it's a mess and I can't hit the broad side of a barn with them. Do I spend the money and Marcot's book? will it tell all? Help....
CT

[El Supremo]

Welcome, 54Dodge:

Quick tips:
Marcot's book won't help solve your issues.  It is nice history with lots of photos, but very little answers to your questions.  Still, at some point it will be a help in providing historical awareness.

There is a SPENCER OFTEN REQUESTED INFORMATION ("SORI") section in this SSS FORUM.
It includes reloading information.

The reamer is not taprered. AND ONE IS NOT USED ON 56-56 CASES. 
Sit tight here and await more responses on bullets, molds and cases.

The 56-56 bullet looks like a giant 22LR bullet with outside lube grooves ahead of a reduced diameter tail, which tail or "heel" fits into an UNREAMED case.

I don't recall these heeled bullets being crimped in the usual way involving a constricted case mouth edge.

Please try to send photo's of your rifle.  If difficulty, email them to our Administrator.
Fred, "Two Flints", will post them for you.

Regards,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[Trailrider]

The "only" time you need to ream brass for .56-56 Spencer is if you are using regular inside lubed (straight sided) bullets. The diameter of the straight reamer will depend on the diameter of the bullet and the wall thickness of the cut down .50-70 cases. I had a reamer made up years ago. It was .525" in diameter.  I used a Lyman #533476AX hollow base bullet mould, sized .535" in diameter.

For a heel bullet you probably do NOT need to inside ream the case. You want about a .003" interference fit between the inside of the case and the heel of the bullet. In other words your expander die should be about .003-.005" smaller than the diameter of the heel.  I haven't tried it, but you might possibly be able to use a taper crimp die to insure better bullet "pull" (the amount of force required for the burning powder to push the bullet from the case.  A pull of about 90 lbs should be good.

Best of luck!

[Rim fire]

I shoot a 56-56, and I trim my Starline 50-70 brass to .920 and use a Rapine .535470 mould.  I do not ream.  The 4d dies are set for buffalo brass which is ~1.1" long.  I trimmed my dues to work with my brass length and provide a taper crimp.  I load ~28gr off 3f swiss and Winchester large rifle primers.  My overall length is 1.550".  That compilation works well and is accurate.  I wouldn't glue my bullets in the case.  Please find out what mould you are using so we may help further.

Case length, and hence overall length are critical in using your dies and feeding through the gun.

[El Supremo]

Hello, Trailrider:

Interested in your bullet pull comment.

I understand "pull" matters as a velocity influence.
That's part of why I anneal, but never knew how to create a specific amount beyond fit and crimp.

So.... how does one create a specific amount and how can it be measured, please?

Many thanks,

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[Walksfire]

I have gone done this exact trail with my 56-56. My relvant post with pics is:      

*** Loading Photos Added *** Bullet Lead Lyman #2 ordered

I used the buffalo arms brass and there 4D dies. as well as molds found on the website.

I use winchester primers also.

I use the 4D die to size the brass.

I pour measured powder in with a green RCBS funnel. Then I have cut/punched brown paper wads on top of the powder. Next I have a phillips screwdriver in the mouth of a .223 brass. I put the primer end of the .223 into the 56-56 brass full of powder. Then I push it down (crushing the powder and wad down).

I put some beeswax lube tube of stuff into the grooves of the bullt by hand.

The next die seats the bullet to the correct depth for a good OAL (over alll length).

The last die puts a slight crimp at the top of the brass. A waxed up groove with still be showing above the brass.

I can hit barns, with careful aim, I can hit card stock.

[Trailrider]

Hello, Trailrider:

Interested in your bullet pull comment.

I understand "pull" matters as a velocity influence.
That's part of why I anneal, but never knew how to create a specific amount beyond fit and crimp.

So.... how does one create a specific amount and how can it be measured, please?

Many thanks,

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

Howdy, Pard,
As far as bullet pull is concerned if you have good interference fit between the case and the bullet, and a firm crimp, either taper or roll crimp, you can just see if there is any tendency for the bullets to move from the case under recoil.  Alternatively, you might use a collet (or even a locking pliars, and a fish scale and see how much it takes to pull the bullet out of the case. Good bullet pull is important to insure good ignition of the powder.  I probably shouldn't have been quite so firm on the 90 lb figure. Just get good enough pull to insure your rounds fire without any hangfires (ignition delay).
Your obedient servant,

[El Supremo]

Thanks, Trailrider:

Fish scale and visegrips better than my teeth.

Regards,
El Supremo

[Cav Trooper]

Ok, I've read and reread all of the sori info and other 56-56 reloading info and get confused so, here is what I've got. I have 50-70 cut down brass to 1.000", I don't know where I got that dimension from for cut down but that's it. I have a Rapine 546-375 bullet mold and bullets cast. I have CH4 dies. I prepped and loaded an empty case tonight to see if I could get a crimp. I seated the bullet to just below the last grease groove. OAL is 1.455". I dropped it in my spencer and it chambered with no problem. I have not tried feeding from the magazine, I will make some more dummies to test the feeding. My next questions are do I have to recut the cases to some other length that has been established? Is my bullet seating depth ok or do I need to seat to some other dimension? The case did not crimp and the case mouth has a slight burr on it from the expander. Do I need to worry about that? The bullet is very tight, which I like. When I charge with BP, do I need to compress? 38 gr of BP? Do I need to compress to the point the the hollow based bullet is just resting on the powder? Do I need to worry about the hollow base being a empty cavity above the black powder? If I need to recut the cases, where can I find a case holder that I can put in my lathe to cut them all the same?
I know, lots of questions but, I know you guys have gone through this and it's a piece of cake to some. I just want to make sure I cover all the bases before charging ahead. I will most likely use Alox as a lube, I was using bees wax and crisco but don't see any way to get good lube with that recipe, I have used it in my 1863 Springfield ok. When I was glueing the bullets in (520-350 mold) I was dipping the loaded cartridges in the melted lube but that was a real mess.
Thanks,
54dodge

[Cav Trooper]

If I trim the CH4 sizing die to use it for crimp, any idea how much to take off? I assume just chuck up in lathe and turn end and chamfer/blend edges.
Thanks
54dodge

[El Supremo]

Hello, 54Dodge:

I do not reload the 56-56, but have experience with the 56-50 and CH4D dies.

For your 56-56 round, the case TTL involves a shouldered bullet that should rest on the case mouth.  So you may be able to determine case TTL by working backwards from a proven round OAL. 

My 56-50's have been somewhat tolerant of minor OAL variations and feed well IF HARD LEAD IS USED to minimize friction during feeding.  By hard, I mean 16Bhn to 18Bhn alloy which can be achieved with antimony free, tin:lead mixtures.  I avoid wheel wrights to eliminate metals such as zinc and cadmium.  ROTOMETALS website can help you determine ratios.

Regardless of what you might otherwise learn here, I suggest that you call Tom Davidson at CH4D for his help BEFORE shortening the DIE.  Taking a little off of the shell holder is my preferred method of getting a case further into a die.

Regards,
El Supremo/ Kevin Tinny

[Cav Trooper]

Thanks all for the info.