Armi sport 56-50 issues

[Hammered Flat]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the  Spencer carbine/rifle however not new to shooting for fun or putting food on the table.  I've got a new Armi Sport Spencer Carbine by Chiappa fireams. it's a beautiful carbine and shoots nice -Single shot-.  I have cast the bullets myself Lyman #2 hardness. I'm using the modified Lee mold to cast 343 grains. Magnum CCI primers and 22.5 grns IMR 4227 powder.
rifle shoots grea ;Dt but  will not cycle one round . I am loaded to OAL of 1.500 with a heavy crimp. the rounds seem to hang up on the top of breech and jam preventing the breech from rotating up to close. this rifle is brand new do they not function check these a litle more or am I just missing something.  most of my experience is bolt action and revolvers and modern military type firearms. Need  a little help thanks Y'all.

[Drydock]

Spencers are extremely sensitive to OAL, and I believe yours are a bit too short.  Try 1.55", and keep working out until you get good feeding.  It will never be smooth, and the action works best when worked with "vigor"!  The form of the bullet comes into play here, so I cannot give you a "correct" OAL.  But 1.50 is definitely too short.

[Hammered Flat]

Thanks Drydock, I have been really trying to get this thing to cycle, I am going to use inert loads. also going to repour my bullets, I'm thinking I am on the soft side too. will post when I get things corrected.

thanks Y'all      Hammered Flat

[El Supremo]

Hello:

Interesting monicker. 

Harder alloy helps reduce cycling friction.  Also, a light coat of wheel bearing grease on the noses of loaded rounds may improve cycling.  But first see test that each round FITS the chamber and that it will extract and eject.  Then try cycling two rounds, one IN the chamber and one in the tube. 

NEVER TEST CYCLE WITH LOADED ROUNDS.  IT IS POSSIBLE TO STUTTER-STEP THE EXTRACTION MOVEMENT AND JAM THE POINTED CARTRIDGE GUIDE FINGER AGAINST A PRIMER!

Also watch for loose bullets in case necks. You should not be able to twist a properly fitting bullet in a loaded round.   Cycling can push loose bullets deeper into the case mouth and reduce overall length.  Some brass has enough internal taper that a STRAIGHT sided neck expander will create a bit less bullet contact further into the mouth.  Heavy crimping can also bulge the neck just below the crimp.  Both create less bullet tension.  Harder lead helps.  Expand the mouth JUST ENOUGH to barely get the bullet base to enter. 

El Supremo / Kevin Tinny

[Hammered Flat]

El Supremo,

Thanks for the info, the first rounds I loaded were inert with no primers, I have to reload these first due to being too short and I need to repour a harder bullet.  I have found that I may have to shorten my Lyman crimp die because it acts like it is too short to crimp tight.  My monicker comes from working on big equipment and always having to cut off the bent parts, hammer everything out flat to make repairs after being damaged.

Hammered Flat

[El Supremo]

Thanks, Hammered Flat:

"El Supremo" was bestowed on me by a SEAL named "Lizard".   

Lyman dies have been reported here to be shortened Sharps 50-70 dies.  You might want to search here for postings about Lyman dies.  I recall that lyman's may need tweaks.

All the best,
El Supremo / Kevin Tinny

[Drydock]

Sounds like you have the older Lyman dies.  I would then also suspect the sizing die is oversize and has too much taper, as it is a 50-70 die.  The newer runs I'm told corrected these problems.  RCBS makes a far better set of Spencer dies FWIW.

[Blair]

My original C D Leet rim fire 56/50's OAL. measures to 1.620 to 1.625.
Now I must say these have rather pointed bullets, witch is fine for rim fire ammo, but not good for center fire. Flat nosed bullets are best for center fire.
However, in todays loadings, most fellows don't take the shorter length of the flat nosed bullet into account. Nor do they think about the difference the shape of the "ojive" shape when it comes into being able to close the breech block over the next round coming from the rather short stubby nosed bullet coming up from mag tube.
This is based off of original Spencer's and the ammo used in them.
My best,
Blair

[Hammered Flat]

Well I went back out and fired up the lead pot and melted down all my first batch of bullets. These are from a modified Lee mold. I hardened my lead up to a Saeco 9 which is just about Lyman #2. repourd a new batch,sized to .512 and started out at 1.600 which would not feed(too Long)
so I took it in .025 steps and finished up at 1.525 Oal. this feeds great. now to figure out why bullets still spin in case. Do they make a taper crimp for this caliber or would it not hold either. bullet is on size so it has to be in the brass not sized correctly by sizing die.
My Lyman dies are brand new and marked for 56-50. when I open up cases for seating I am only just bumping open the case. on an empty sized case you can seat the bullet and just push it on down quite a ways. Never had this issue in my Sharps or my 44 Henry.
Thanks Y'all

Hammered Flat

[Coal Creek Griff]

My Lyman dies are fairly new too, but still do not fully size the cases. I finally bought an RCBS set and all is well.  When I used the Lyman dies, the bullets would spin inside the cases as you described.

CC Griff

[Hammered Flat]

Was thinking I'll get me set of RCBS dies on the way tomorrow!

[Coal Creek Griff]

That would certainly be my suggestion. I hated to spend the additional money, but it solved the problem.  Now I'm more than a little miffed at Lyman for selling a product that doesn't work well.  I have a nearly new set of dies that I can't use and can't even sell in good conscience.

CC Griff

[Drydock]

Yep, all you need to load the Repro 56/50 is the correct OAL and RCBS dies.  We need a disclaimer up top to tell folks NOT to buy the Lyman dies.  While I have heard Lyman fixed the issues, I've yet to see any evidence of it.  

Coal Creek, the Lyman dies will work in ONE instance.  If you can find someone loading for an original spencer using cut down .50-70 brass, with .520 bullets, they will work.

[Jbar4Ranch]

The top forward edge of the breechblock is also quite sharp and tends to dig into the next bullet in the tube when closing. I broke the sharp edge with a few strokes of a stone and it works fine now. It doesn't take much, you don't have to round it, just dull it a bit.
I use the same modified Lee mold and Lyman dies.

[Hammered Flat]

Well, I got my RCBS dies and with the harder cast bullets all is well. they cycle and shoot great. I figure the Lyman dies arfe to size the 50-70 cut down brass which would be thicker than the repro 56-50 brass.  I'm thinking that this is why the Lyman dies will not pull the repro brass down far enough. I thank evryone for the help!!  Aim true shoot straight my friends!