38/56 BP bullet

[bear tooth billy]

I'm messing with an original 1886 Winchester in 38/56. I got a box of .379 bullets from Buffalo arms, 1st loading
was 56 gr. 2f swiss, at 50 yds 11" group, not good. Next load, 51 gr 2f swiss with .7cc scoop of psb, much better
2" group at 50 yds. My problem is after about 5 shots the group opens up, and after 10 they're starting to keyhole.
I'm not getting any lube on the muzzle of the barrel (SPG lube on bullets) probably not enough for the 26" barrel?
I slugged the bore and it measured .380", so I'm looking for a BP bullet .381" that will carry enough lube and shoot
200 possibly 300 yds for NCOWS competition. I'll probably upgrade sights to a Marbles tang and 17a front. Any idea
what the accurate range of this could be and where I can get bullets or mold for it     Thanks

                                                    BTB

[Blackpowder Burn]

You might try Accurate Molds (www.accuratemolds.com).  I love the molds I've gotten from them.  The 38-250B would be a potential candidate.

[Ranch 13]

Maybe try some 1.5 swiss or Eynsford, and a lubed felt wad under that same bullet.
Accurate moulds may have something that will work or could be modified to work.
Don't forget due diligence in lead mining that bore before the next time out, fouling hard enough to key hole bullets most certainly left you little shiny reminders in the bottom of the lands.

[wildman1]

I have an original 86 in 38-56 and use a BACO mold that comes out at .3795 I shoot it unsized and do not have any problem getting 2" groups at 200 yds. If you would like I will check the mold # and the load I use and post it later. wM1
PS I think the bore on mine is .381

[Fox Creek Kid]

I have an original 86 in 38-56 and use a BACO mold that comes out at .3795 I shoot it unsized and do not have any problem getting 2" groups at 200 yds. If you would like I will check the mold # and the load I use and post it later. wM1
PS I think the bore on mine is .381

2" at 200 yds. using BP in a lever action with iron sights? 

[wildman1]

That's right. I used a Marbles tang sight from a bench rest. I had the same problem of keyholing until I got the right load by slowing it down a little bit. wM1

[bear tooth billy]

I had a similar project with an old 94 Winchester (1907) with maybe a little worse bore than this 1886, I got
an oversize mold from accurate molds .313" and with sight upgrade and smokeless powder I ended up with
very good results, 2'' group at 100 yds and about 5" at 180 yds.
I want to use black with this one and if I order a custom made mold I want to be sure I get enough lube
capacity for my 26" barrel. I'm surprised DD hasn't suggested his big lube bullet, it probably will carry enough
lube but I don't know about the accuracy at distance.
My main experience with BP long range is my 45/90 Shiloh and Paul Jones mold, it will punch perfect round
holes at 1000 yds, heavy long bullet 540 gr. So I don't know if I should try a heavier, longer bullet? again
I'm talking 200-300 yds out of this 125 year old gun with decent but not perfect bore. Thanks

                                                BTB

[Blackpowder Burn]

I've had good luck with DD's 38-55 bullet and BP out to 200 yards.  I haven't tried it further than that.

[wildman1]

My BACO mold puts out a bullet that is 250 gs I have tried another bullet that is 320 gs but didn't get any better accuracy than the lighter one. My wife uses the 250 BACO as cast in her 38-55 and gets the same results. wM1
PS sent ya a PM.

[Dick Dastardly]

I shot this bullet with good results at Hay Hollow Range yesterday.  I shoot a Winchester Legendary Frontiersman in 38-55 Cal.  The bore slugs at .380 and that's the diameter of my Star/Magma lube sizing die.  I was shooting Old Einsford 1½ Fg under a .135 over powder wad.  I was using Federal large rifle primers in 30-30 fire formed brass.  The bullets had a very light crimp to make them pocket safe.

I have these molds in stock.

DD-MDA

[bear tooth billy]

I've been soaking the barrel for 2 days with ballistol, between brushing and a tight patch
on a jag, I'm getting it shiny all the way through.  I'm checking on getting some sample
bullets to try next.  Thanks

                         BTB

[Ranch 13]

Get a can of Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine. Wet a flannel patch with it and run that wet patch thru the bore on a jag, twice, then a dry patch. Repeat until the patches come out the same color they went in..
Your bullet is probably alright, but when that Swiss fouled out hard on you and started key holing the bullets, that's when the lead got deposited.
Try some Bullshop NASA lube or Big Sky Components BSC , or one of those Muzzleloader Original dry lubed felt wads (the ones they sell for capnball revolvers) if you're going to shoot dirty, without any fouling control.

[wildman1]

PM sent. wM1

[bear tooth billy]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have 3 different type bullets coming to try, I also ordered
a marbles tang and Lyman 17a sight.

                                   BTB

[wildman1]

Bullets etc received today Billy thanks. I won't get a chance to try em for another month but am looking forward to it. Those 38/56 bullets are unsized but should measure less than .380. They are pretty soft probably around 20-1. I use them in my wifes 38-55 and my 38-56. I have had no leading problems in either gun. Hers is a highwall and mine is an '86 sporting rifle. I think the bore in mine is just under.381. That bullet bumps up to seal the bore just fine. wM1

[john boy]

My problem is after about 5 shots the group opens up, and after 10 they're starting to keyhole.

Billy, sounds like you are not patching the bore after each shot

The rifle bullets were 220 and 275 gr.  Here's a 270gr Accurate mold with a metplat near the same as the original... http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-270E-D.png  I would have Tom make the metplat 0.18 instead 0.26

[wildman1]

If you are concerned about weight of original 38-56 bullets BTB I can weigh a couple and let ya know what they are. wM1

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho BTB,

New set of DD 38-55 bullets on their way to you.  Lyman 20:1 alloy cast at 750° F.  Let me know how they fly for you.

DD-MDA

[bear tooth billy]

I'm waiting on new sites from Buffalo arms so I can get a better site picture at longer ranges,
I've  loaded up some more of what I've been shooting and thought I would run a patch
every other shot. It will probably shoot good, but I'm setting this up to use for NCOWS
long range and I can't run a patch during a shoot

                                   BTB.