I've got an itch for an open-top

[Dan Gerous]

I'm looking at a Colt open-top from Cimarron. Does anyone know if they do any "extra" work to their guns?

[Coffinmaker]

Yes, I know.  Absolutely ...... NONE.

Coffinmaker

[Montana Slim]

JMHO........Fastest way to destroy a Uberti OT or RM is to crank it two-handed as the 20 second per stage or faster shooter.
Sliphammer it, too, along with a 3-finger roll.

Well....Not for me, I shoot duelist or gunfighter & believe the guns will last much longer before servicing. Basic action job (no new parts) & deburr + arbor check & tuneup and away they go. So far, so good, I haven't destroyed any of mine.

I should find the photos of my Circa 1998 (guessing on the date as I removed the visible markings) Uberti 1860's which came to me as the old-fashioned factory "Kit". This consecutive SN set came with perfect fit of the arbors. Maybe the only two ever.....but I know for fact they came that way.

Edit to add....
No disrespect Coffinmaker, but I would expect a gunsmith who caters to cowboy shooters to generally lay hands on a higher percentage of the guns which the owners are not satisfied with (for whatever reason). Thus a gunsmith impressions might be from seeing the "x" percentage of not-so good guns. OTOH,  A significant portion of friends into CAS send all their guns out to highly regarded gun mechanic "A" or "B" regardless. But, for the most part these are the hammer-crankers. Folks who buy Uberti OT/RM pistols are usually more interested in authenticity vs. flat-out hammer cranking.

Slim

[45 Dragoon]

Well,
Beggin' your pardon, but every gun that comes to see me leaves with the ability to be treated like a rented mule regardless of make. Any single action (even the almighty S.A.A.  will meet an early demise if not set up for " hammer-crankin' ".  There's a reason Colt wanted an action stop built into the S.A.A. , likewise,  there's a like reason I put a bolt block in every revolver I work on.

I'll also say the action parts in an Uberti are light years ahead of the '70s style parts in a Pietta.  No more thick bolt arms to slim down and the hands have a nice spring installed.  I agree with CoffinMaker about the combo spring but , I tune what's in the gun rather than toss.

I have a customer with an original 1872 assembled Colts Richards  with 12 lock notches  (early one for sure!). It's probably the only original Richards  with the ability to  "slip hammer" without destroying.

So, it's not what's being worked on, it's what work's being done. Except for the extremely soft guns (had one of those not long ago), they can all be built "to take it" !!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Montana Slim]

I thought it would be obvious...but I am referring to the original out of the box action of these firearms...originals or modern repro cartridge or C&B. Fully agree the current Uberti are head & shoulders above many competing revolvers...but they turn out a lemon now & then, too.

I'm more into authenticity than sub-20 second stages (low 30's are my best). So rebuilding the factory gun with new design isn't my thing...maybe everyone else, but no matter to me. I prefer to use authentic styled guns (Colt C&B or cartridge OTs) & loads (BP), hit the targets, and actually look like I belong in the era. Occasionally I bring out an original firearm and treat it with respect.

Slim

[45 Dragoon]

Montana Slim,
I only use the original style parts that are in the guns. The only "new" parts added would be a bolt block (not invasive), a set screw for the action stop (reversible), a set screw in the arbor for adjustability of the wedge  (reversible), and a cap post to keep caps/cap frags out of the action ( reversible  as well). I don't use wire Springs or coil and plunger actuation  (only if requested by the customer).

  I wold like to clarify what I wrote in the post above about the "built in action stop". The Colt S.A.A. had one, but only on paper. The design was a good thought but didn't make it in production.  They decided the second finger was in a strong enough position along with the ratchet system that the action stop wasn't necessary. That being said, all S.A.s  (in my view) benefit greatly from a positive action stop which keeps action parts from being forced past their respective job.  Reading (and talking with Jim Martin ) about Colts intended action stop design convinced me that I should include that feature in my service. The only thing missing was a bolt block ! Again, after some discussion,  I decided that was a necessity for my service. I know everyone now and then gets the urge to "hoss" um a bit so, it might as well be up for the task!! Better to have it and not need it than not have it and screw up you six shooter!!

So, I see what you mean as far as "authenticity " and I agree, I just add a little "insurance " that it'll work tomorrow too!! I also am a stickler for mechanical accuracy and function. Timing is paramount and the ability to "take a beating" is a must!  These designs are old but they can work so perfectly it's hard to believe.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Crow Choker]

I'm looking at a Colt open-top from Cimarron. Does anyone know if they do any "extra" work to their guns?

I read once upon a time an article about Cimarron Firearms Italian made Colts that they were a little more in dollars than other importers and sellers of similar made firearms due to the fact that they (Cimarron) paid extra for extra fit and finish. If I recall this may even have been in an interview with Mike Harvey in GOTOW. I believe there used to be something in their advertising about the "pay extra for better fit and finish". Before I purchased my first Cimarron firearm, I researched all I could about the difference between Cimarron and some of their competitors. I even wrote a well known black powder magazine author who everyone would recognize his name and asked him. He advised NO, that their was no difference say between Cimarron and Taylors Uberti offerings. Not attempting to put Cimarron down, as I like their products, have six of them. Cimarron has done a great service in bringing the replicas to the world shooters and is a good place to get the guns of the old west you want, but I have gotten several from them that needed some TLC, one in particular, my first Open Top, I sent back for another due to poor wood/metal fit and a poorly made/finished rear sight. I don't know what they pay extra for, but the guns I have gotten from them are no better than the ones I've purchased from Taylors. I don't see the "pay extra for extra fitting" in their ads anymore. Maybe all it is, is the 'Cimarron Arms, Fredericksburg, Texas' they have rolled on top of the barrels of the guns they sell. Would I buy another gun from Cimarron, yep, if the price was better than say Taylors or it was a gun no one else is offering.

[Abilene]

There are less differences between opentops from different importers than there are in the SAA guns.  The primary difference would be fewer visible proof marks on Cimarrons.  Crow Choker, I've seen several OT's some years back that had that horrible QC from Uberti on the rear sights, which had big burrs on them.

[Silver_Rings]

In the last 2 years I switched from Uberti Schofields to Uberti 1871 Open Tops in 45 Colt.  I shoot gunfighter in CAS and just shoot for fun, so I often am competing for last place.  I've been shooting all three Open Tops I purchased new, just as they came out of the box except for removing the safety that is in the hammer and filling the hole with JB Weld.  All three have worked fine for me.  If I was a fast 2 handed shooter maybe they would need work?  Don't know and don't care.  So for me they are not kits but functional guns.  All depends on what you are looking for.

Silver Rings   

[Crow Choker]

  All three have worked fine for me.  So for me they are not kits but functional guns.  All depends on what you are looking for.

Silver Rings   

Hear and understand what  your saying Silver Rings, but even if a shooter isn't trying to pump five-ten shots into Johnny Ringo, I and I believe most shooters who layed down what the Open Tops/Richard Masons cost, want them to function as designed and reliably. I as a gun owner and shooter even if I'm thumbing back the hammer and squeezing the trigger in slow sequence, I want all the internals to be working and performing as they're suppose to, whether shooting in competition or shooting tin cans. As I previously penned, two of the three Uberti open top style handguns I purchased had timing issues. Did they shoot, Yep, everytime I pulled the trigger. Did they perform as designed, Nope. Bolt peaning of the cylinder caused by to short of leg coming off the cam, poor bolt/cylinder lead interaction. MY Richards II other than just a little polishing and stoning of the internals was/is free of any timing problems or anything else I have seen. This and other forums are filled with posts of problems shooters have had with their Italian made Colt and Remington made to look like guns of yesteryear. Some shooters like you and others say they haven't had problems, others report  'wailing and gnashing of teeth' with the problems they encounter with the firearms they laid down dollars for. Suspect it's as on the automobile lines, depends if you get one made close to lunch hour, quitting time, or late Friday afternoon.

One expert gunsmith from this forum I had PM's with about my Open Top advised of a truthfull statement. Advised me that they (the workers at the Uberti plant in Italy) slap them together and send them down the line to the next guy. What the gunsmith said was true. "Production" is the key at Uberti and you can forget about Cimarron's old claim that they pay extra for extra fitting, about as true as one persons claim currently in politics about their Benghazi and e-mail claims. That's the problem, production and cost is the bottom line in corporations today, profit is needed, but craftsmanship and quality take a back seat to often. Poor employee attitude at businesses takes a toll also. I've seen it first hand in the years I was working. I saw it recently at a major well known business related to the shooting sports. Too many workers out in the labor force that don't give a crap or hoot in H' about the quality of the product they turn out, just waiting for that Friday paycheck. I bet it's no different at Uberti's or Pietta's gun plants, there are those who don't care about the quality of the product, let someone else worry about it.

Silver if you obtained three Open Tops without any timing or other problems, your one lucky guy. I didn't and a lot of other shooters didn't either. I personally like what I buy and shoot to be 'clickin' like a time clock, whether I'm thumb bustin all six beans in the wheel as if my life depended on it or takes me six days to shoot all six. I wouldn't tolerate a guitar that wouldn't keep the G string in tune even though it still played.  I can recall back in the early 70's and even since also, seeing some percussion six guns that looked as if monkeys in a zoo put em together, poor fit, finish, action, you name it-pure junk! OK, getting off my soapbox. No opposition or animosity to ya, just have a different view of what I've seen and demand. You and all take care and safe shootin.
Yers, Crow Choker   

[Graveyard Jack]

Hmmmm, mine also seem to work just fine with the same tuning and springs my SAA's get. I spent way more time stoning the action of my New Frontier than I did any of my Uberti guns.

Again, I wouldn't assume that all cars are in need of repair just because a mechanic found something to "fix" on mine.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Hmmmm, mine also seem to work just fine with the same tuning and springs my SAA's get. I spent way more time stoning the action of my New Frontier than I did any of my Uberti guns.

Again, I wouldn't assume that all cars are in need of repair just because a mechanic found something to "fix" on mine.

Yet, you changed the springs and "tuned" them. 

[Coffinmaker]

Aw .... Cummon F C K,

A Troll is as a Troll does.  Can't change his mind any more than his warts. 

Coffinmaker

[Graveyard Jack]

Yet, you changed the springs and "tuned" them. 

Yes, I do the same to all my single actions, be they Ruger, Colt, USFA, Uberti or Pietta. Might even have some completely reworked by a REAL gunsmith, doesn't make the base guns "kits". The Open Tops are no different. Which is kinda the point.

Aw .... Cummon F C K,

A Troll is as a Troll does.  Can't change his mind any more than his warts. 

Coffinmaker

I don't appreciate being called a troll just because I disagree with you. We resolving disagreements with personal attacks now???