ASM 1851 conversion cylender replacement

Cardctter · December 06, 2015, 05:54:07 PM

I have just picked up an ASM copy of the 1872 conversion pistol in .44 colt. I know that's not the authentic caliber. It came with 18 rounds. I got great groups and really enjoy shooting it, however ammunition is hard to come by and on the pricey side. I was wondering about converting it to use .44 special. I understand that the colt is.060 shorter than the .44 special. I also know that it is a lighter load than the special. So my questions are.....
1. How hard is it to modify the .44 colt cyl. to fire the .44 wcf. rounds?
2. Is it safe to do so?
3. Is there a source for a replacement cyl. for theses guns?
Thanks Much
Jim

Abilene · December 06, 2015, 06:25:26 PM

Short answer: no.

The cylinders are too small in diameter to allow chambering .44 Spcl, .44 Russian (or .44 wcf). The rims are the problem. The reason you can chamber the .44 Colt round is because the rim on that one is a smaller diameter than the other .44's. I'm not sure if the chamber would allow a .44 Spcl anyway, but it will definitely allow a .44 Russian, however you can only load 3 rounds with one in every other chamber due to rims overlapping. You could take .44 Russian brass (and possibly .44 Special) and turn the rims down with a lathe so they are the same size as .44 Colt rims. That is just about your only option other than shooting the .44 Colt that it was made for. And no, there are no replacement cylinders or pretty much any other parts available for these guns, sorry!

Cardctter · December 06, 2015, 06:52:43 PM

Thanks
I was afraid of that.
Oh well. I guess I just got an expensive to shoot really fun gun.
Jim

Abilene · December 06, 2015, 07:08:43 PM

You really need to be a reloader to shoot 44 Colt reasonably. If cost really is a consideration, consider selling it and buying an Uberti conversion in .38 Spcl. The ASM guns often had quality problems, but they do have their fans and if the gun is in good shape you could probably get your money out of it. On the other hand, a single stage loading press and set of dies could be the beginning of a fruitful relationship

Coffinmaker · December 07, 2015, 09:08:28 PM

Plus one to Abilene.
The possibility of finding a serviceable cylinder for an ASM Conversion is ......... Zilch. And, in the ASM '51 frame, the cylinder is too small to accept 44Spl or 44 Russian cases. 44 Colt is a sweetheart cartridge, but as noted, some expensive in commercial loading, when it can
be found. A reloading press will be your friend. A couple hundred cases will last you a very long time.

At present, there are NO parts available for ASM guns.

Coffinmaker

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · December 08, 2015, 03:29:41 PM

IMHO, the reason tables of cartridge dimensions exist is for the purpose of "cartridge case conversions"

http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm

The tip about using .44 Russian cases is a good one, but you could shorten .44 Special cases to achieve a case that will fit your cylinder. What remains to be done is to narrow the rims to about .483, or at least enough that rims in adjacent chambers don't interfere. It is easy to do, by inserting a case in a drill press chuck and hold a good file against the rim until the desired diameter is reached. Lightly remove burrs and you are GTG. Once altered, a .30-30 shell holder should fit.

Altered cases can still be used in .44 Spl or RM single action revolvers as there should be sufficient rim to effect headspace.

Cardctter · December 09, 2015, 05:00:05 PM

Thanks for all the great info. If I keep it i will probably spend some time and money on a reloading set up for it. It shoots like a dream.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · December 09, 2015, 07:25:21 PM

Quote from: Cardctter on December 09, 2015, 05:00:05 PM
Thanks for all the great info. If I keep it i will probably spend some time and money on a reloading set up for it. It shoots like a dream.

If you have any .44 Colt ammo, I hope you saved the empty cases! Simply reload with .44 dies, the shorter the better;- e.g..44 Spl.) See if a .30-30 shellholder works, or search around until you find one that fits. Your local gunshop or a nearby friend that reloads are places to start.

About 50 cases will suffice for a lifetime of fun shooting. If you intend to compete in matches you will need more.

BTW: I never throw out a usable case, or ignore the shiny stuff laying around ranges or in garbage bins at the range. Heh, Ya Never Know!

The Pathfinder · December 10, 2015, 10:11:55 AM

Cardcutter, there are tons of 44 Colt cases available on Gunbroker, once you get your dies and a shell holder you should be good to go. Good luck.

Montana Slim · December 13, 2015, 11:08:32 AM

Lee 44 Russian Die Set will load .44 Colt.
Some prefer to use a different shell holder with the .44 Colt cartridge, such as the one for 30-30.

Slim

will52100 · January 05, 2016, 02:00:53 AM

I'd suggest the Lee 4 hole turret press as a starter. Midway has them reasonable with everything you need except powder/primer/bullet. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-classic-4-hole-turret-press-deluxe-kit Still need to get the dies and shell holder, I use Lee's 44 Russian dies and a 41 mag #9 shell holder.

I get my 44 colt brass from Starline, good brass and reasonable cost.

I looked at Midway and the cheapest they list 44 colt loads for is .78 cents a round. I cast, but figured buying 200 grain bullets @ .09 cents a round and new cases and they would cost me .32 cents a round. If you reuse the brass, cost goes to .14 cents a round. Thats for smokeless with Titegroup powder. If you get into casting the price drops even more, but you can see anyway you go it's a good savings over .78 cents a round. Price for black powder loads is a bit higher due to using more powder, but at about .40 cents(new case) still cheaper than Goex black dog ammo at .82 cents a round. One other thing you need to reload is a way to clean cases, like everything else you can go cheap or expensive. I like we tumbling with stainless steel media, and for small batches I use a harbor freight single drum tumbler. Some people even just soak in water and citric acid and it seems to work for them.

Of course you don't really save money reloading, you just shoot a lot more.

I've got 5 presses, two loadmasters, a pro-1000, a 4 hole classic cast turret press, and a single stage. While I still use the single stage for some operations, if I could only have one press it'd be the classic cast turret press. I should say 6 presses, my first foray into reloading was a lyman 610, kinda like a pair of pliers with proprietary dies, slow and irritating, but showed me that reloading is easy and fun, but I don't count it as it's been sitting in a drawer for the last 15 years or so.