Sudden Accuracy Loss/Same Load

TheHappyGunner · November 28, 2015, 02:34:52 PM

Hello all,

I've been shooting my .44 WCF 1873 Uberti rifle all summer with the same exact load: 43-210B bullet, 36gr of Swiss 2F black powder, CCI #300 primers and Starline brass. This is the load I started with, and from the beginning it had produced ~1" five-shot groups at 50 yards. For reference, I have replaced the standard buckhorn sights with a Marbles tang sight and a small bead front sight. By all standards, it's a beautiful rifle with a great shooting set up!

Anyways, with deer season starting this coming Monday in Pennsylvania, I decided to take my rifle out and make sure that she was still shooting true. Well, she certainly was not. My previous 1" groups were now 5" groups at 50 yards with the same loads I had been using from the beginning. I tried another five shots the following day, and turned up another 5" group. This is NOT acceptable for that distance, and now I am a mere two days away from the opening day of deer season! Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this?

I clean my rifle very well after each shooting session, and as a result the bore has no pitting from rust. The sights are solid with no play on either of them, and the bullets are sized .001 over bore dimension. There was no wind on the day that I was shooting. After the last 5" group, I decided to buy some bore cleaning compounds to try and remove any lead that might have been in my bore. Patches come out grey (after cleaning out all BP fouling), but I haven't removed any shards of lead.

I am at a loss here and am desperate for any solutions. Does anyone have any ideas on what could be causing this sudden, severe drop in accuracy? Thanks!

Rowdy Fulcher · November 28, 2015, 04:36:59 PM

Howdy
What are you using for bullet lube ?
What is the diameter of your bullets ?

Lefty Dude · November 28, 2015, 04:47:32 PM

What was the temperature the day you had issues ?

TheHappyGunner · November 28, 2015, 05:36:21 PM

I had purchased my bullets from a Mark Whyte online. The bullets came pre-lubed with a greenish lube. I can assume that it is a black powder lube as I had told him I would be shooting black powder exclusively when I ordered them. For the last five-shot group, I removed the green lube and applied my own homemade lube (50/50 bees wax/canola oil) with the exact same results. For reference, I have not experienced a "lube star" while using either lube after nearly 200 rounds down the barrel.

The weather was ~55 degrees during my last shooting session. It hasn't gotten below 30 yet this year in my region of the state.

Ranch 13 · November 28, 2015, 05:47:18 PM

If your patches are coming out grey, then there's leading in there. Trot down to the hardware store and get a can of puregumspirits of turpentine, soak some heavy flannel patches with it, and run them thru the bore on a jag, followed by some dry. Repeat until the patches come out nearly as white as when they went in.

Lefty Dude · November 28, 2015, 06:31:40 PM

Quote from: Ranch 13 on November 28, 2015, 05:47:18 PM
If your patches are coming out grey, then there's leading in there. Trot down to the hardware store and get a can of puregumspirits of turpentine, soak some heavy flannel patches with it, and run them thru the bore on a jag, followed by some dry. Repeat until the patches come out nearly as white as when they went in.

Yep, what he says !

Leading at the leade and forcing cone.

wildman1 · November 28, 2015, 10:33:58 PM

200 rounds? Have ya cleaned it? wM1

TheHappyGunner · November 29, 2015, 12:46:31 PM

wildman1,

Yes. As mentioned, I clean my rifle very well, immediately following each shooting session. There is no evidence (via bore light) of any type of permanent damage to the rifle's bore, whether it be pitting or frosting. The bore is as shiny as when it was brand new, and the rifling remains very sharp.

~

So leading at the forcing cone could affect accuracy that much at 50 yards?

Lefty Dude · November 29, 2015, 01:04:53 PM

Quote from: TheHappyGunner on November 29, 2015, 12:46:31 PM
wildman1,

Yes. As mentioned, I clean my rifle very well, immediately following each shooting session. There is no evidence (via bore light) of any type of permanent damage to the rifle's bore, whether it be pitting or frosting. The bore is as shiny as when it was brand new, and the rifling remains very sharp.

~

So leading at the forcing cone could affect accuracy that much at 50 yards?

Yep, you are resizing the bullet undersize each and every shot. Remove the bolt and clean from the breach. Use an old bristle bore brush. Wrap copper scrubber around the bristle brush for a tight fit. This will remove the lead from the leade. Buy only copper "Chore Boy" scrubbers. They make a copper plated steel pad, do not use it. Only the pure copper. I buy mine at the grocery store.

Dick Dastardly · November 29, 2015, 04:10:29 PM

Ho the fire,

Heat up the coffee. I'm comin' in peaceable like.

Happy Gunner, did you slug your bore? If so, what is the bore diameter? .001" over bore shouldn't give you any leading questions given adequate lube. You specify a twin lube grove bullet. If your leading question continues to plague you, give the Big Lube®LLC Mav Dutchman bullets a try. Mark Whyte casts them. I shoot them out of my Browning 44 Magnum with complete success and no leading questions at all. I size my bullets all to .429" which is exactly what the bore slugs at.

Best luck hunting!

DD-MDA

TheHappyGunner · December 10, 2015, 07:49:09 AM

Hiya folks,

So after I scrubbed my bore and let some harsh chemicals have their way with whatever residual crud was in my bore, I swabbed the bore with a couple of patches until they came out clean. With my bore light I had a look and nearly blinded myself! MAN that bore was shiny!

So I took my rifle out for another session to see how it would go. Again, to my dismay, I shot three 5-shot groups at 50 yds and of them, my best grouping was just over 3".

So... would the temperature have any play in this? When I first started shooting with this rifle I got a few groups that were about 1.5" in diameter. That was back in 80* weather. It was 34* when I took it out back this past Sunday.

I'm nearly at a loss for ideas. I will say that I clean from muzzle-breech (not recommended, I know, but it seems to be the most convenient way to clean most leverguns) and without a boreguide. However, I am using a rubber-coated Shooter's Choice .30 cal cleaning rod as well as brass jags and brushes. There's no steel-on-steel contact at any point during the cleaning process... but would my cleaning method potentially cause any damage to the bore that would cause this much accuracy loss at 50 yds?

Thanks a lot for the help, fellas.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · December 10, 2015, 08:11:47 PM

Have you examined the muzzle for dings or burrs? Have you done a tightening tour of your piece with properly fitting screwdrivers.

I might have missed something but I couldn't see these topics mentioned; - yet.

Fox Creek Kid · December 11, 2015, 03:32:19 PM

Shooting is often like golf, tennis, pool, etc., in that some days you perform better than others. I would look at the 'Indian' here & not the 'arrow'. Are you using sandbags PROPERLY? Have you found the 'sweet spot' on the forearm? Are you locking in the butt of the rifle with a sandbag on your shoulder? Etc., etc.

Cuts Crooked · December 12, 2015, 06:36:45 AM

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on December 11, 2015, 03:32:19 PM
Shooting is often like golf, tennis, pool, etc., in that some days you perform better than others. I would look at the 'Indian' here & not the 'arrow'. Are you using sandbags PROPERLY? Have you found the 'sweet spot' on the forearm? Are you locking in the butt of the rifle with a sandbag on your shoulder? Etc., etc.

What he said ^^^^ When all other variables are eliminated it comes down too the nut behind the butt.

Cliff Fendley · December 12, 2015, 07:44:55 AM

If I have unsatisfactory results I put a rifle in a lead sled and make sure everything is exact on every shot. That illuminates the loose nut between the trigger and the barrel.

Course I'm still sighting the rifle so just to be sure I have gotten a different nut to shoot the gun altogether. If two loose nuts get the same results it's usually the rifle.

I'm to this point on a Uberti 76 rifle right now that I can't get satisfactory results with.

Montana Slim · December 14, 2015, 08:40:37 AM

I'd consider the humidity as a big factor compared to temperature. Typically one has cool DRY air during winter....although this year is not very typical.

Cool/cold/DRY weather here in the Midwest usually requires me to alter my BP lube to a softer mix, ie...less wax for better performance.
BTW, my "summer" mix for cartridge bullet lube is more like 60/40 (deer tallow/beeswax). I have gone softer, too...depends on the consistency of the "oil" your adding...Ex: olive oil vs. rendered tallow.

I also recommend the MAV-44 for it's lube capacity and the large flat. I've killed some varmints on the farm with it & makes a dandy wound channel for a quick kill.

If your not seeing lube on the muzzle after firing a 10-shot sting, you need either more lube or a softer mix.

Barrel length is another factor...longer barrels need more/softer lube......trickier situation if your running a 30"...Less issues at the other end - 19" - 20" carbines.

Slim

rickk · December 14, 2015, 11:47:53 AM

Is there any chance that one of the sights has loosened up a bit?

Lefty Dude · December 14, 2015, 12:11:31 PM

Are you using a Marbles tang sight ? The stem loosens with age, causing accuracy to be erratic. I had to send one in for repair several Years ago,

Coffinmaker · December 14, 2015, 10:05:56 PM

And remember this, while your sorting it out. IF ........ You Don't Succeed ....... Quit. Do something else.

Coffinmaker

Noz · December 15, 2015, 04:27:23 PM

My similar experience was with an IAC Sharps. It would shoot with great goodness any thing I fed it.

Until one day it wouldn't.

Make a LOOOOOONg story short, I had had my cataracts removed and my eyes would not longer work with a peep sight. I had to use an open sight or sell the gun. A friend wanted it more than I did. I learned later that it is possible for the eyes to come around and work again as before.