Newbie issues

Davem · July 22, 2015, 10:52:33 AM

I am sort of thinking either a Sharps or a Remington Rolling block. (maybe a trapdoor Springfield). One issue is maintenance of the firearm, cleaning, etc. Is one style easier to clean and maintain?

Blair · July 22, 2015, 11:45:18 AM

Cleaning any firearm is something that should be done after shooting.
(Type of powder used may require a need for cleaning sooner than others.)
The trapdoor Springfield are cleaned from the muzzle end. This tends to push the dirt you want to clean out, down into the breech area.
The Sharps and Remington can have the barrel cleaned pretty well from the breech out the muzzle. Pushing the dirt away from the breech.
I hope this helps.
My best,
Blair

Major 2 · July 22, 2015, 04:05:45 PM

Here is another observation .... But before I chime in , think Bore Snake and you clean all from the breech .

Cost; The Sharps is arguably the cream of your list and cost accordingly with originals in the stratosphere.

Rolling blocks are next ... though good shooter grade originals can be had in 43 Spanish etc.

Good to very good 73 Springfield Rifles are inching up but still can be found under a grand

expect to shell out $1800-2500 + on Replica Sharps .... maybe $1300 - 1800 for the Rolling block

and if dig $750 -1500 on the Springfield .... good luck in your quest

Jake C · July 22, 2015, 04:20:48 PM

I recently acquired an original Trapdoor (made in 1875) for $650 plus tax. Haven't shot it yet, but I imagine it'd be an excellent rifle for anything you'd need it for. You could use the money you saved for reloading supplies, powder, etc.

Davem · July 22, 2015, 04:42:18 PM

I've seen similar trapdoors in that price range. I think Buffalo Bill used one for at least a while and he sure shot a lot of buffalos although I don't know if the chambering was 45/70 or something else. On the 45/70, it is one of those issues that such a load isn't well represented by the foot/pounds formula that favors velocity and yet it has done in a lot of game.
Have any of you shot much game with a standard 45/70, a load that could be used in a trap door?

Trailrider · July 22, 2015, 05:15:22 PM

Quote from: Davem on July 22, 2015, 04:42:18 PM
I've seen similar trapdoors in that price range. I think Buffalo Bill used one for at least a while and he sure shot a lot of buffalos although I don't know if the chambering was 45/70 or something else. On the 45/70, it is one of those issues that such a load isn't well represented by the foot/pounds formula that favors velocity and yet it has done in a lot of game.
Have any of you shot much game with a standard 45/70, a load that could be used in a trap door?

Buffalo Bill's original Trapdoor Springfield was a .50-70 Gov't. But the .45-70's accounted for a bunch of buffs and other critters, as well as being a military arm, and used in some 1000 yd matches, as well. Between the Trapdoor, Sharps and Rolling Blocks, in .45-70, I would guess it is a matter of cost, and whether you are going after an original or a replica. My personal preferance is for a Winchester HiWall, M1885. But, as the model year implies it came out after most of the buffalo were gone. You pays your money and takes your choice.

Davem · July 23, 2015, 10:49:06 AM

I really like the high wall but the late date is also my issue. On some of the original trapdoors still around- seem like a bargain- real thing.

Kent Shootwell · July 23, 2015, 12:09:59 PM

I have shoot a fair amount of game with the 45/70 mostly with black powder or equivalent loads. Only twice did I use a jacketed bullet. Bullets from 300 to 525 grains have given fine results, just pick the bullet for the job. I prefer the Sharps but the trap door is a good choice.

Silver Creek Slim · July 23, 2015, 06:26:09 PM

I had a Springfield trapdoor in .45-70, a Pedersoli rolling block in .45-70, and a Marlin 1895 in .45-70. Bought the trapdoor a couple of years ago for $800ish, the rolling block 10+ years ago for $400ish and the Marlin 10+ years ago for $400ish. The Marlin technically isn't a BROW but a fun gun anyway.
I started my .45-70 addiction with a H&R handi-rifle that I still have. My next one was a H&R's Wesson & Harrington 1871 Buffalo Classic, which I sold to Old Gabe after I bought the rolling block. http://www.cascity.com/article0899-2.htm Therefore, H&Rs are also an option.

BTW, I used the trapdoor for the GAF Muster main match this year.

Slim

Davem · July 27, 2015, 03:59:20 PM

Well, I was mostly interested in a rolling block or Sharps but on the trapdoor: on the net are a couple of phot0s of Buffalo Bill's trapdoor. I figured it would be a carbine but what is shown looks like the full length rifle.

Pitspitr · August 04, 2015, 12:42:37 PM

Yes, it was a rifle. I've seen Lucretia Borgia (What's left of her) up close.

You want to remember that there were a lot more rifles made than carbines

Davem · August 13, 2015, 01:14:12 PM

Well........if it was good enough for Buffalo Bill......
Shooting an original that only costs $650 or so, seems pretty good. Are there any "unknowns" about a trapdoor that would make them undesirable? Such as bad accuracy, impossible to keep clean, etc.?

Jake C · August 13, 2015, 01:36:38 PM

I've only run 9 rounds through mine, but everything is fine with the rifle. Certainly fun to shoot. Only issue is a previous owner had cut some of the forend, and now that bit slides forward under recoil. Gonna need to get that fixed.

Blair · August 13, 2015, 02:01:54 PM

Davem,

To my knowledge, the biggest issue is with individuals trying to put "too" much modern (smokeless) powder into a firearm designed only to shoot Black Powder.
Buffalo Bill had no other options with Lucretia Borgia.
My best,
Blair

Trailrider · August 13, 2015, 02:10:31 PM

Quote from: Blair on August 13, 2015, 02:01:54 PM
Davem,

To my knowledge, the biggest issue is with individuals trying to put "too" much modern (smokeless) powder into a firearm designed only to shoot Black Powder.
Buffalo Bill had no other options with Lucretia Borgia.
My best,
Blair

Yes, and IIRC, Lucretia Borgia was a .50-70 Gov't! Not sure which model, but probably a M1866 Second Model Allin Conversion or a M1868.

Pitspitr · August 14, 2015, 11:45:19 AM

Quote from: Trailrider on August 13, 2015, 02:10:31 PM
Yes, and IIRC, Lucretia Borgia was a .50-70 Gov't! Not sure which model, but probably a M1866 Second Model Allin Conversion or a M1868.

Yes, she's a M-1866 in .50-70

As to issues shooting original trapdoors they tend to require bullets larger than .458 (more like .460) so most jacketed bullets don't work very well. If you load according to the information in Wolfe's book on loading for the original trapdoors http://www.amazon.com/Loading-cartridges-original-Springfield-carbine/dp/157579019X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439570517&sr=8-1&keywords=j.s.+wolfe+45-70 most will shoot very well but tend to string vertically a little.