Ideal 32 Colts Loading Tool

ndnchf · October 03, 2013, 06:28:47 PM

I came across this tool recently and snatched it up, hoping it would work for my .32 Long Colt loads discussed in another thread. It is marked "32 COLTS WIN & MAR". After cleaning it up a bit and taking some measurements, I found it to be for something larger. I tried 32 Long Colt and .32 S&W Long in it, they both fell right in, being too small for the tool. Then I dug out some old factory .32-20 and that seemed to be it. They go into the bullet seating chamber and stop maybe a 1/32 from going in all the way. So I fgure it its for .32-20. I ran a bullet through the bullet sizer it it came out .3115" - .312". Its hard to measure the mold, but the base seems to be about .314". Looking through some old Ideal catalogs, the mold closely resembles the Ideal 31357 mold, but the catalog identifes that as for the .32 Colt NP or .32 S&W. But the tool is surely for the .32-20. I didn't find this exact tool in any of my old catalogs either. So its little bit of a mystery. Can anyone shed light on it?

w44wcf · October 04, 2013, 11:14:22 AM

ndnchf,
Nice find! It is Ideal tool No. 4. The "Colt" reference is for the C.L.M.R. (Colt Lightning Magazine Rifle).

The bullet is Ideal 31111. In the 1899 Ideal catalog the 31111 bullet reference states ....... "This is the regular standard U.M.C. bullet for the .32-20 Marlin & Colt's."

The 31357 looks pretty much identical to the 31111 but is meant for the .32 Colt New Police and .32 S&W long according to the catalog. Both bullets are cataloged at 100 grs. and the difference appears to be the width of the front driving band. It is wider on the 31357.

w44wcf

Adirondacker · October 04, 2013, 11:44:43 AM

The Ideal #1 tool was made for "32 Long, UMC & Colts WRA Co." That's how it's listed in Handbook #5, but it wouldn't necessarily be marked exactly the same on the tool. The #4 tool was made for "32 WCF" (32-20), "32 Marlin," & "32 Rem.", each of these being different & non-interchangeable cartridges, I assume. (The #1 & #4 tools look exactly the same to me.)

Shooters of the time were also confused, because the handbook mentions that the company wrote "bushels of letters" in response to their inquiries. "We caution shooters that there is a difference...32 Long UMC shells are...the same as the 32 Long RF; the 32 Colt as catalogued by the Win. Co. is the rightful 32 Long and it was so called until they made shells for the English pistol 32 Trantor. These shells are longer and the bullet is smaller...we presume it took the rightful name of the other cartridge, and to that was given the name of 32 Colt". Makes everything crystal clear, doesn't it?

PS--Wrote the above before reading John's identification--he nailed it, of course.

Adirondacker · October 04, 2013, 11:58:35 AM

ndnchf:

Since that wasn't the tool you were looking for, I'll take it off your hands for $2, if you'll pay the postage. Have to have a 7-day examination privilege, of course.

ndnchf · October 05, 2013, 05:44:11 PM

Thanks for the information fellas. I don't know much about these old loading tools, it's something I haven't studied much. Adirondacker - thanks for the offer, it is tempting, but I think I'll hold onto it for the time being. It gives me an excuse to look for a nice little .32-20 rifle

dusty texian · October 10, 2013, 08:10:13 AM

Hey ndnchf , have not been on here much as of late,and just noticed this . Very good find. To bad it does not work as is. Had a thought ,That sounds dangerous. What if you do a cast of the sizeing chamber of that tool and send it to me. I may be able to make a bushing that you could solder in and then the bushing could be reamed to .316 LCR , the size you want, COULD STOP THE .316 CUT AT .775 depth AND YOU WILL GET YOUR CRIMP But if you use the heavy sidewall brass ,it would not be needed. If ever you wanted to go back to 32wcf ,just heat it up and slip the bushing out ,,,,,,Dusty

ndnchf · October 10, 2013, 08:56:03 AM

Dusty - that's an idea, but seems like a lot of work on your part. Lets see how the new dies you are sending me work first. I think they will serve my needs fine and I can use this as an excuse to get a rifle to go with it

dusty texian · October 10, 2013, 11:28:44 AM

Be glad to do it if you decide you want to. The Die's should arrive on Friday . Hope they work for Ya,,,,,,,Dusty

ndnchf · July 28, 2015, 08:16:27 PM

Ressurecting an old thread here. Nearly 2 years ago I picked up this loading tool. After finding out it wasn't for the. 32 Long colt, I set it on the shelf with the idea that some time in the future I might get a. 32-20 rifle. We'll, that day came this week. in fact I got the daily double! It seems that a #2 Remington rolling block and a model 1889 Marlin, both in 32-20 are joining my heard. So I will finally be able to use this nice little tool.

.

pony express · July 28, 2015, 09:25:00 PM

Nice pair of rifles you got there, ndnchf- I got the twin to your Marlin in my safe.

Major 2 · July 29, 2015, 05:03:27 AM

Your gonna love the Marlin.... drool

I was lucky to find my Marlin 1894CL .32-20 Win these were a limited run during Marlin's Centennial 1889-1989 and continued a few years.
Mine was NIB and made in 1990 JM marked with all papers & inspection sticker attached....

Sweet right out of the box

ndnchf · July 29, 2015, 06:25:22 AM

Thanks fellas - do you have any .32-20 load recommendations? Mild loads and cast bullets only for these old timers.

I haven't owned a Marlin since I was a kid with a 39A. The M1889 is all new territory for me. I've been trying to get educated on them. Pony Express - I'd appreciate any tips on care and maintenance you'd care to offer.

pony express · July 29, 2015, 09:38:28 PM

I haven't really done a lot of shooting with mine, usual load is a 115 gr bullet from Desperado, with a case full of Goex. My bore is a little rough, and needs to be wiped fairly regularly. As they don't have a cartridge stop at the end of the magazine tube like the later ones do, OAL has to be right for it to feed. There is a corner on rear of the lifter that stops the round coming from the tube, it was worn down on mine, had to weld it and reshape so it would stop the cartridge in the right spot, otherwise it would try feed 2 rounds. Also on mine, the ejector/extractor is a bit weak, empties just barely dribble out the side of the action. At least they're easy to find!

ndnchf · July 30, 2015, 05:48:21 AM

Thanks PE, I've been reading up on the M1889, but did not know about the lack of a cartridge stop. The seller tells me that it loads, fires and ejects just fine, so hopefully there will be no issues. But I'll keep that tidbit in my back pocket. What overall length have you found to work best? I've got dies, some .314" bullets and brass on order, but I'll wait to order a mold until after I slug the bore.

pony express · July 30, 2015, 06:19:16 AM

I'll have to check the OAL, not sure what it is. But basically it needs a bullet designed for 32-20, some designs for other .32 handgun rounds don't have the crimp groove in the right place. I had some 100gr SWC bullets for .32 long or H&R, nose was too short.

ndnchf · July 30, 2015, 09:47:53 AM

I looked at the SAAMI specs and it shows OAL to be 1.540" min - 1.592" max. With a case length of 1.315", that leaves bullet protrusion at .225" - .277. So there is a pretty wide range. I've got some old factory ammo that I'll measure to see where it falls.

ndnchf · July 30, 2015, 07:26:40 PM

I decided to give this old mold a try tonight. I put 3 or 4 lbs of 40-1 in the furnace, and let it get hot. The mold worked very well, bullets dropped easily from it. Good leather gloves were required as the handles got pretty hot. It cast pretty good bullets for its age. But they do run on the small size,. 311"-.313". I ran one through the sizing chamber in the tool and it evened it out to. 311" all around. I was hoping they would run around. 314". I'll save these for black powder loads, maybe they will bump up. It does have a nice sized grease groove.

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ndnchf · August 01, 2015, 09:13:51 PM

I picked up some 32-20 brass today and used the old Ideal tool to load a few rounds. Priming worked very well.

I lubed up the bullets cast in this tool's mold and seated them over 18gr of Goex 3F and then seated them with the tool. Overall length was on the money at 1.580". The old tool worked surprisingly well!