Mini Shotgun Shells

[rbertalotto]

I was at the local gun shop and he just got in an order of mini shotgun shells. Slugs, buck-shot and 7 1/2 Shot........Not sure what they would be used for or if they would feed in a pump or auto loader.

But they might eject real nice from a side by side since they don't have as much bearing area..........

Wonder if they are SASS legal?

12ga

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The English about a Century ago developed the 2 inch 12 gauge as an answer to the need for light ammo in a light portable game-gun. The idea is not new!

In a break open gun, suit yourself if it fills a need.

The only repeaters I have are Win. '97s. I tried short shells to obtain more mag capacity for Wild Bunch. IT WORKS; I ended up with AA shells (split neck throw aways) trimmed to 2 3/8 inch and roll crimped. Shells cut any shorter would not feed. They would sorta get lost on the way from mag to mouth.

[DTS]

Today, the short shell is a "NEW" light recoiling load, designed to reduce recoil for those old trap shooters who cannot handle a full weekend shooting normal trap loads. Seems most normal trap loads today are around 2 3/4 dram 1 ounce loads and are completely different from when I shot trap with 3 dram 1 1/8oz loads in the 70's.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

What's old is new, again!

It is not the length of the shell that lowers recoil, it's mostly done by reducing the shot payload, and somewhat by lowering the powder charge. Using the WW gray wad you can load 7/8 oz or so in a regular 2 3/4" star crimped case  and drop the powder a bit. I saw no reason to go below 16 grains of Red Dot. Regular components and press, or do what many do; - buy discount promo rounds on sale.

7/8 oz at 1150-1200 fps is all it takes to be in the game at trap. Going much below that doesn't seem very productive IMHO. SASS targets can do with less, and I, personally, am not aware of any rule in SASS that would stop anyone using shorty cartridges. Most of my SASS shotgun rounds are 16 gauge, 40-45 grains of BP yielding something like 900 fps. I would load up to equal volumes of powder to shot for hunting or serious BP trap. Even at that I would be surprised if velocity met 1100 fps.

With roll-crimping, you can try almost any length of cartridge.  How about that load I mentioned with the AA gray wad. Substitute an AA red wad and shorten the case so the case mouth is about 1/4" to 3/8" over an over shot card and roll crimp. Thair Y'ar, Robert's yer Fathers Bro!

[DTS]

  yes - there are a whack of shorter shells on the market, with the moniker of having less recoil. I am aware you can load your own ammo with appropriate powders and wads to about any recoil or load level you want.

Case in point were the 2 3/4oz. commercial low recoil 850fps 7/8oz commercial loads the regular trap guys were having trouble hitting birds with. After a while, they caught on to the lead, but took a big.

[Flatbush]

Those short shells are neat lookin', but my experience has been those 6-point crimps don't shuck well from my side by side. They open differently than the 8-point crimps and I have to pull them out with my fingers.

[pony express]

Sir Charles, I have tried making some roll crimped short shells for my 2 1/2" chambered Model 97, and they work fine except-after firing the mouth of the shell doesn't straighten out, it stays somewhat "curled" making it difficult to reload again.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Sir Charles, I have tried making some roll crimped short shells for my 2 1/2" chambered Model 97, and they work fine except-after firing the mouth of the shell doesn't straighten out, it stays somewhat "curled" making it difficult to reload again.

That is common. There are things you can do, like chuck em if it's too bad. I select well used cases to start with so it's no matter, mostly.

Try different cases to start the process. RXPs/Nitro 27 don't roll well at all, but Gun Clubs do. AAs(old) sometimes work, and it seems they do best at 2 3/8 inch as that length coincides with the slight waist of the original crimp. Try some "new" AAs.

Discount promo shells (usually with white metal heads) can be too soft and crush very quickly.

Sometimes, the curl can be opened up enough for another load with the tapered end of a common hollow punch, but you might find that the plastic has hardened too much to roll.

Another option to try is the Hartin Crimp which can be done on almost any press. The Hartin crimp often gives a few more reloads as it is not affected as much by heat generated by the rolling process.

Hit the burn-barrel at your range and try a few different cases.
.

[pony express]

Ha! the burn barrel is where I get all my 12 ga hulls, since I don't have any other 12 ga besides the '97.I think the ones I tried were all AAs, maybe some of the cheap "crinkle wall" hulls that don't have an internal taper would work better. Basically, just don't want the extra hassle of cutting them down, just for 1 use.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Trimming is so easy, who cares how many reloads you can get. I have a piece of 1 inch gray PVC pipe cut as a jig. Shove a case in and run an utility knife around it. It took me about 15-20 minutes with a hacksaw & file to make the jig and utility knives are laying around everywhere!

Find a type of shell that fits your load and rolls easily and faghetabauhtit. (The Green Rem gun club (brass heads) & utility grade (Alum. heads) hulls work jes fine

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Trim off the crimp of the cases and cut it back to 2.35" and develop a wad column the will give about 1/4" lip then roll crimp them. It is very easy with a couple of not overly expensive tools from BPI Inc.

This is what I will shoot in Frontier Cartridge class with a Black Powder load. The one that works for me is 4 c/c FFg powder, and the same measure of #9 shot. The wad column is a 1/8" over powder wad, a ½" cushion wad, and an over shot wad them roll crimp.

They also feed nicely through an1887 lever action Winchester. My experimenting finds the Reifenhauser type hulls work better than compression formed ones and are easier to gather up.

With BP you will only get 2 or 3 reloads until they burn up but all that is invested in them is a little time cutting them down.
Respectfully submitted
Bunk

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Trim off the crimp of the cases and cut it back to 2.35" and develop a wad column the will give about 1/4" lip then roll crimp them. It is very easy with a couple of not overly expensive tools from BPI Inc.

This is what I will shoot in Frontier Cartridge class with a Black Powder load. The one that works for me is 4 c/c FFg powder, and the same measure of #9 shot. The wad column is a 1/8" over powder wad, a ½" cushion wad, and an over shot wad them roll crimp.

They also feed nicely through an1887 lever action Winchester. My experimenting finds the Reifenhauser type hulls work better than compression formed ones and are easier to gather up.

With BP you will only get 2 or 3 reloads until they burn up but all that is invested in them is a little time cutting them down.
Respectfully submitted
Bunk

A quick way to get a shorter wad column is to use a shorter plastic wad of your favorite brand.  AA s seem easy to get and discount versions are common as well. I use a lot of pink wads (1 oz.) and then go to the AA114 (white field load wad) for the shorter roll crimped loads. 1 oz. is plenty nuff, but adjust to find that 1/4 inch. above the card wad. I cut my own OS cards from wax cardboard milk carton with a hollow punch of a suitable size. That 2.35 length is just about right and will give you an extra round in your Win '97 mag.

[pony express]

I never got around to making a jig for them, should have thought of that. I had a wood dowel that fit inside the hull, to keep it from collapsing when I cut it, then marked with a sharpie, then drag the knife around the outside to cut. Your plan sounds like less work. I may just have to get that old gun out and work on the extractors some, and use it more(drops the empty shell back down in the action sometimes, I think the problem is the left extractor $$)

[rickk]

If you have a boat and have equipped it with a 12 gauge marine flare gun,  keep those short thingies in a very separate location from the flare gun.

The ATF believes that if you have those plus a 12 gauge flare gun at the same time (which they WILL fit into btw), you are in possession of a sawed off shotgun.

--

BPI makes a very functional adjustable trimmer for plastic hulls. I use mine to cut the crimp off of well worn out crimped 2-3/4" plastic hulls to turn them into 2.5" roll crimped BP rounds.  The nice thing about dong this to well worn hulls is that you can shoot them with BP just once and not feel any pain about tossing them.