1873 Winchester/Cimarron 32-20?

[yahoody]

Anyone else shooting a 32-20, '73?   We've had a Browning 32-20 around for several decades.  But I've always wanted a 1873 Winchester in 32-20.  Finally stumbled upon on a Cimarron Deluxe Rifle with a 20" barrel just recently.

Fresh out of the box the thing would not run.  Nice that the dealer sold me a POS.   Gun had been around a while as the box was pretty beat up, some handling marks on the wood but hang tags still on the gun.  You couldn't even load it properly through the side port- loading gate.  Which had to be fixed immediately as the gun started life as a single shot for me     Then there is the mag tube...which is the same size as a 45 tube.  Not all that impressed with the "improved engineering" by Uberti there.  Stupid idea which causes all sorts of problems feeding for the 32s and 38s.  The extractor was shaped and tensioned incorrectly and the barrel cut improperly done.  Which inturn made a single shot that needed a knife to help in extract a spent shell.   And finally in the worst way, this rifle really needed a trigger job.

Took several disassembles to get every thing sorted.  But I really did want to, at the very least, "try the gun out".   Our Browning 53s will shoot most any ammo exceptionally well.    Not so the '73.  But it will shoot given the right diet and a little TLC.  Nice rifle now!     

Weight empty 7# 13.5 oz.
20" barrel Deluxe short rifle

25 yard targets with ten rounds of 115gr. lead bullets in each plate.



Now that the gun is actually reliable...with 200 rounds down range and no failures it is time for a real trigger job.  And a "Smooth Cycle Kit" from the Smith Shop to solve any additional feeding issues.

If most 32/38 owners would stuff one of the inserts into their mag tubes early on I'd bet there would be a lot less broken bolt stub problems down the road.   That and a spare hand fit extractor should make this little rifle one of our favorites.

http://www.thesmithshop.com/smoothcycle.html

[Pettifogger]

Many of the Uberti .32-20s don't function out of the box.  As you found out Uberti makes ONE mag tube size.  Large.  It is marginal with .38/.357s.  It is far to large for .32-20s.  Next, the bolt is just a .357 bolt "adjusted" to work with the .32-20.  Sometimes the "adjustments" work, sometimes they don't.  Since Uberti uses a .357 bolt they also have to use a .357 carrier, which is too big for the .32-20 so the .32-20 rounds flop around in there.  They can be made to work, but it is too bad there is not enough demand for .32-20 so that Uberti could afford to actually engineer some properly fitting parts.  You also have to pay attention to the bullet nose shape as the wrong shape can make loading and feeding difficult.  The bevel in the receiver (above the bottom hole in the carrier when it is in the down position) also frequently needs to be reshaped or the rims get hung up on it as the carrier rises.

[yahoody]

Thanks.  Mine seems 100% now but as you note it sure aint the way Winchester would have done it.  I used 4 different 32-20 bullets today, 90gr jacketed to 115 lead and all worked fine.  Just not as accurate as the Browning 53s .  But the Uberti sights are part of that equation. 

Have always liked the 32-20 because it is so much fun (low noise, accurate and cheap to shoot) compared to the rest of the WCF cartridges.    Good in a handgun as well as the rifles.

I'll bush the mag tube and go to the proper size tube from Redman's if the insert doesn't solve that to my satisfaction.     

[jimbobborg]

Have you tried it with some BP loads yet?  I'm going to run some (eventually) through my 92 Takedown in 32-20.

[yahoody]

No BP here.  We have a few 32wcf SAA hand guns that get shot on a regular basis and a 92 in the same.  This is the first 73.  But none of the holy black here   Likely won't be.  I'm too lazy to clean it.     

With 115gr bullets and Winchester powders the handguns and the Browning rifles are some of the most accurate guns I shoot.   Which is actually saying something if you knew everything I shoot on a regular basis.  The 1873 may yet  join that elite group but hasn't yet.  Partly sights I imagine and the terrible trigger.  It is a decent shooter just not stellar like the rest of the 32s we (wife has a pair of SAA and a Browning)  own.

[Cliff Fendley]

I am the opposite, mine will likely never have a round of smokeless shot through it. I just started shooting 32-20 in a 73 and find it is just like shooting the 44wcf with black powder. There is no clean up to speak of. Just run a couple patches and maybe a brush down the barrel.

Revolvers are a different story but with rifles I find cleaning takes less time after shooting black powder. The bores clean up fast with just a quick brushing and two or three patches. The actions stay clean with 44wcf or 32wcf and don't need any extra attention that I wouldn't give one anyway.

[Abilene]

I have the same rifle, CA215 (20" pistol grip).  It is my 4th Cimarron '73 in a 4th caliber, and I really like it.  Always figured I'd get a 32-20 eventually but a few years ago Cimarron, through an ordering mistake, suddenly had a BUNCH of them in stock, and they were selling them way below distributor cost, so I just couldn't refuse.  Plus, I got my pick of the litter for pretty wood 

First problem was with the extractor, as mentioned above.  It would fail to extract every so often.  I handed it off to the 'smith at Cimarron for a quick adjustment which took care of that.  Next problem was the big mag tube.  Hard to load, and then at the loading table I'd have to take a knife blade and straighten up the round on the carrier or it would jam the first time you tried to lever it.  I put in one of those fiber mag tube liners and that problem is now gone.

I've run a little smokeless through it, but mostly BP.

[yahoody]

Fun rifles for sure.

Had mine all of 4 days and likely @ 500+ rounds down range now.  115gr bullets with the right load will shoot them all pretty much in the same hole at 25 yards, if only I could.   Ten shot 1/2" groups?!     with iron sights out of any rifle I own is something to savor and really enjoy.

No question they are clean guns to shoot.  I am shooting a reasonable 32-20 smokeless load that is backed off just enough to work reliably in our pistols.   But I have ran a bunch of pretty hot rifle velocity loads through this gun as well.   Those rifle loads are hot enough to jam a pistol up tight as a tick.   Virtually no clean up with any of the smokeless past keeping the carrier lubed up enough to run. 

My best efforts today after sorting out the sights yesterday.

[Hawk24196]

I have an Uberti, after a short stroke kit, new springs it run great.  The only issue is with reloading the ammo. Using both a Redding taper crimp and a Lee factory crimp die, is still have problems with the bullet being pushed into the case,on the round,coming out of the mag tube on to the carrier.  Any suggesting?  Crimping on a single stage press.

[Pettifogger]

I have an Uberti, after a short stroke kit, new springs it run great.  The only issue is with reloading the ammo. Using both a Redding taper crimp and a Lee factory crimp die, is still have problems with the bullet being pushed into the case,on the round,coming out of the mag tube on to the carrier.  Any suggesting?  Crimping on a single stage press.

You didn't say what kind of bullet you are using or what your crimp looks like.  Make sure your expander is the proper size and that you are using proper .32-20 bullets.  In most cases you want a crimping groove and make sure the crimp is going into the groove. 

[Hawk24196]

Loading Rim Rock Bullets The same shape as Meister bullets.. They have crimping groove, but no ring above the groove.  Found the extra ring to cause feeding issues. I have also had these bullets pushed into the case.  The taper crimp is into the groove.  The Lee FCD is a good solid looking crimp.  is it possible to over crimp?  When you run a fired  case through the taper crimp die, the diameter of the case mouth is smaller. 0.33 to 0.325.

[yahoody]

"is it possible to over crimp?"

yes it is possible

I'd also be inclined to see how much of the neck you are resizing.  I use a 32-20 pistol cylinder as a chamber check to set up my dies.  If they will drop in and out with my pistols they run fine in the rifle.  I am resizing the entire length of the neck.  Which makes a roll crimp redundant on the 32-20.   

[Mike]

I had a few issues when i started loading 32WCF, once i sorted the case length on all my case i had no more problems. I use a Redding die set, crimp when seating and all is well.

[yahoody]

Hawk, I forgot the most obvious which Mike has mentioned.   You need to sort your 32-20 brass.  Remington, Winchester and Starline are all different lengths.  Remington being the longest.  Winchester is in between Remington and Starline.

Until you have sorted through your brass supply and are loading the same length/manufacture brass your crimp will always be too much (crushed cases)  or too little on one brand or another.