Punitive Expedition/Border Resources?

[Stoneburner]

Howdy Folks!

I've posted this in the SASS Wire and here in CAS City in the Wild Bunch forum, have been told to get in touch with Capt. Baylor, whom I e-mailed an hour ago, but figure the more eyes I get this in front of, the more help I'm likely to get:

I'm looking for Punitive Expedition stuff for an Ohio National Guard Cavalry Officer interpretation, but folks who shoot Wild Bunch are using the same sort of thing, so, can anyone point me in the direction to find:

-Officer's riding boots
-Officer's riding gloves, horsehide or buckskin
-An olive drab, moleskin, sheepskin-lined, single-breasted mackinaw
-Wrist strap for a pocket watch
-M1909 cavalry bridle and bits

Budget is an issue, so if anyone knows of used pieces that I might find (I wear about a 46 jacket, an XL glove and a size 12 boot) please let me know, and sorry if this part of the post oughta go into the Classifieds!

Attached is a picture of the man I hope to portray, Captain (retired as Brig. Gen'l) P. Lincoln Mitchell, a fellow Cincinnatian, with his horse Moonshine on the Border in Texas in 1916/17:

[Niederlander]

You might try Prairie Flower Leather Company here in Ord for the wrist strap for the pocket watch.  Check onlinemilitaria.com (What Price Glory) for the riding boots.  River Junction Trade Company has nice gauntlets.  I'm sure others here will have more and better sources, but that may get you started.  Always check e-Bay, as well.

[Pitspitr]

You might try Prairie Flower Leather Company here in Ord for the wrist strap for the pocket watch.  Check onlinemilitaria.com (What Price Glory) for the riding boots.  River Junction Trade Company has nice gauntlets.  I'm sure others here will have more and better sources, but that may get you started.  Always check e-Bay, as well.

+1 on all of Neiderlanders sources.

[Stoneburner]

Thank you gentlemen.  Unfortunately WPG, which has a lot of other stuff on my shopping list, doesn't carry the boots I'm looking for.  I have a few saved searches on eBay, so I spend a lot of time sifting through the junk to find the good stuff, which I then can't afford!    I do like RJ's gauntlets, but the officer's riding gloves just came to the wrist; I'll check with Prairie Flower about those as well as the watch wrist strap.  I guess it's good and bad that the fella was from a well-off family and bought a lot of his gear himself-I have some leeway in patterns, but what he got was costly even in 1916!

[Niederlander]

What do the boots and gloves look like?  Were they a specific Army pattern, or private purchase?  Unfortunately, that mackinaw sounds like it will need to be custom made.  You might check with replicators.com on that.

[Stoneburner]

The boots look a lot like the boots that Texas Aggie seniors get-the man standing beside Capt. Mitchell in the attached pic is wearing them, while Mitchell wears the marching shoe/leather puttee combo.  I know that Mitchell wore both while on the border.  The gloves were mostly private purchase, loosely based on the Army pattern.  Modern RCMP gloves are pretty close, but if I can find originals or repros based on a vintage pattern, that would be better.  I will be checking out replicators.

I have found custom-makers for some of this, but I'm hoping someone knows of less expensive options, including used stuff.

Thanks again!

[Pitspitr]

They look like model 1887 boot. 3 possible sources for the boots. Prairie Flower is working to produce a pair for himself. G.W. Strong makes boots. He may be able to replicate them. And check with Mattimore in Laramie WY;
http://www.civilwarboots.com/index.asp
For the tack, check with JC Stewart (3040steawrt on ebay) if he doesn't produce the model you are looking for he may be able to steer you in the right direction.

[Old Top]

Stoneburner,

Carrico Leather would have the horse tack you are looking for, may have some of the other items also.  I have bought things from him and found them to be quite period correct.

Old Top

[Bat 2919]

Take a look at this set of gloves.  I know they are the 1938 model but I bet they look more or less like the earlier models.  This is the same basic glove style that my Uncle Sam issued me in the 1970's (with wool liners) as winter gloves only in black leather.

http://onlinemilitaria.net/products/2194-US-M1938-Horsehide-Riding-Gloves/

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq.]

Doug Kidd at Border States leather will make you a very nice, very serviceable M1909 Headstall and Halter.  A M1909 bit is not hard to find but M1909 Bradoons are not at all common.  If you find one you'll likely have to pay for for it.

Do you have photo reference for mackinaw you're looking for?

I wear the 1938 WPG riding gloves all the time.  My oldest ones gave out after nine years of regular wear.  I keep one pair for "dress" one pair for everyday wear.  I'll buy a new pair every three-four years.

You might try calling Dehner Boots on Omaha, NE.  They have stuff that is not in their catalog (like 1912 leather puttees) that they will make on request.  Dehner is not cheap but their products are first rate.

G.

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq.]

Some Mackinaw resources:

http://www.vintagetrends.com/military/thumbnails.asp?MC=Military+Vintage&CA=Men&SC=Jackets%2FCoats&ST=Mackinaw

https://www.atthefrontshop.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=USUJMC

G.

[Grenadier]

I compared the mackinaw from ATF with and original side my side last summer. Let's say that the replica fell far from the baseline. The fabric was too thin, the liner was much thinner and the overall quality was not there.

[Stoneburner]

The mackinaw can be seen in the photo attached to the original posting; it's pretty simple, really, just a basic single-breasted coat with what appears to be a sheepskin lining.  I like the mackinaws, style-wise, that ATF and others carry. but they're not exactly what I'm looking for.

Unfortunately, Dehner's is out of my price range...by a bunch!

I have looked at the M1938 gloves, and modifying them (close the wrist with a snap rather than the buckle) is an option, but I'm hoping to find something that will work right out of the box.

Thanks all for the replies!

[Niederlander]

I think you'll find that for the period we portray, and more importantly. the soldiers we portray, we end up having to modify something or making it from whole cloth.  I think that's part of the appeal!