A question on Authenticity

dwight55 · May 01, 2015, 07:33:50 AM

In watching the movie Outlaw Josie Wales, . . . I had heard that the gear that Eastwood specified was pretty much period correct.

BUT, . . . if that is correct, . . . why did they not protect the front end of their pistols.

Josie, . . . a couple of the comancheros, . . . at least one of the bounty hunters, . . . and various and sundry others all had holsters that allowed at least a couple inches of the barrel, . . . and the front sights to hang below the bottom of the holster.

I'd think that would get your barrel into mud, dirt, trash, . . . to say nothing of rain and sweat pouring down on em.

Just curious if it was a fashion thing, . . . some vague military reason (many military reasons are that), . . . or something else.

Curious minds just want to know...............

May God bless,
Dwight

Major 2 · May 01, 2015, 08:23:24 AM

Josie Wales is not any Hollywood product to consider authentic... supposed to be set in 1865

anachronisms include :

1872 Gatling Guns
many 1873 Springfield
71 Richards conversions
& 72 Richards & Mason conversion

St. George · May 01, 2015, 09:27:51 AM

There's the 'reel' Old West and the 'real' Old West' - don't look to the 'John Ford Reference Library' for your facts on historical authenticity.

Instead, go to your local Public Library and actually read about the times - most assistant directors won't/don't, and they go for 'dramatic/artistic license' to make points and most will buy off on that.

Scouts Out!

Cliff Fendley · May 01, 2015, 11:31:34 AM

Quote from: Major 2 on May 01, 2015, 08:23:24 AM
Josie Wales is not any Hollywood product to consider authentic... supposed to be set in 1865

anachronisms include :

1872 Gatling Guns
many 1873 Springfield
71 Richards conversions
& 72 Richards & Mason conversion

Not to mention pants with a waist belt and if I recall belt loops on his pants. Tons of things in that movie not authentic to 1865.

Camano Ridge · May 01, 2015, 12:05:57 PM

I agree with all of the above, however to Dwights comment regarding the barrel sticking out of the holster. I will have to do some digging, but i know I have at least a couple of period photos showing the barrel sticking out. Although I am not sure it is a fashion statement. I believe it probably occurred because when you went into a general store or what ever, you took what they had. If it was a holster for a 5 1/2" barrel and yours is 7 1/2" but your gun fit and you needed a holster you took it. There was also the holster slipper or some called it slipper holster. that was designed to allow some of the barrel to stick. Out I don't think it was prevalent to have the barrel sticking out, however I think we can find historic proof that it did happen.

Major 2 · May 01, 2015, 02:31:09 PM

here you can see the guns used & some leather as well

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Outlaw_Josey_Wales,_The

Marshal Will Wingam · May 01, 2015, 04:53:19 PM

Good link, Major. Thanks for that.

Buck Stinson · May 01, 2015, 07:00:46 PM

I've collected vintage gun leather for 50 years. If you're looking at gun leather, buy a copy of "Packing Iron" by Richard Rattenbury. That IS the real "Old West". Don't depend on the movies. Tombstone is a great movie, but never were soooo many spotted and decorated rigs used on the frontier, as in that movie. The remake of True Grit with Jeff Bridges, did a far better job on gun leather.

Buck

Graveyard Jack · May 02, 2015, 10:38:44 AM

In their defense, the cartridge conversions were often used more for the use of blanks than anything else.

Camano Ridge · May 03, 2015, 01:19:14 AM

Here is one picture showing a slipper holster with the barrel exposed. Also is a picture With caption regarding wearing a hoslter with the barrel exposed.

Marshal Will Wingam · May 03, 2015, 10:22:48 AM

Good pics, Camano. That first one has much the look of the Yaqui slides and similar modern open ended high-ride holsters.

Buck Stinson · May 18, 2015, 06:29:17 PM

This is an original "slipper holster" from our collection. I found this around 25 years ago. The belt is looped for .44 caliber cartridges and the holster was made for a Colt SA. This rig is in new unused condition, with the price $1.00 written on the holster belt loop. I have seen only three of these original holsters, two were black, this one in brown and the only one with it's original belt. Holster and belt are both lined with pool table felt.

Trailrider · May 18, 2015, 06:47:00 PM

IIRC, the Navy used "frogs" as holsters, which had abbreviated bodies, allowing the barrel to stick out. No reason, just policy, that I can find.

will52100 · May 19, 2015, 08:41:07 AM

I loved the movie "the Outlaw Josey Wales" And they did a very good job for the time on period weapons. At least compared to other westerns of the time. And that movie is what started my love affair with the open top colts.

If I remember rite, the main holsters Josey used for his walkers were cut down Calvary holsters? Basically flap holster made to fit the smaller 1860 modified for quick draw and the much larger walker. Or at least made to look that way. The idea is that the guerrilla fighters used what they had on hand and made do. I'm sure there were a few battle field pick ups that were pressed into service for guns they weren't made for.

Buck Stinson · May 19, 2015, 11:37:56 AM

Thought I would include a photo of the slipper holster above, that shows the $1.00 price.

Fox Creek Kid · May 22, 2015, 04:50:39 PM

Quote from: Trailrider on May 18, 2015, 06:47:00 PM
IIRC, the Navy used "frogs" as holsters, which had abbreviated bodies, allowing the barrel to stick out. No reason, just policy, that I can find.

This fella makes a repro:

http://www.dellsleatherworks.com/navyrevolverholster.htm

Hargrave · May 23, 2015, 10:41:58 AM

Ok, here is a general question on vintage photos ..... Where do you find them? I want to have access to some for research .... But where to look ?

Have not had too much luck on Google

A book with thousands of reprints would be nice

Thanks

Blair · May 23, 2015, 11:45:15 AM

FCK,

I would like to see the time period this fellow copied his Navy Revolver Frog from?

Todd's US Military Equipage, 1851 to 1873, Volume III deals will much of this Naval equipment.
Todd's shows line drawings of a fine example of a revolver frog for both Colt And Remington revolvers.
In fact, USN 1851 regulations called of all leather to be made of Black Bridle leather.

Sorry, but I got to say that fellows copy looks nothing like any "Period Correct" US Navy Revolver Frog I have ever researched, studied or examined within my any of my collection, or experiences of US Naval artifacts.
Respectfully FCK
my best,
Blair

Camano Ridge · May 23, 2015, 03:26:55 PM

Hargrave, I don't know if yo have any of these, however this list of book has vintage photos. Also I don't know if you are familiar with pinterest it is an excellent place to search for vintage photos here is a link to my boards on pinterest. https://www.pinterest.com/kreimans/ You might have to register to access however I think you may end up wanting to build your own boards once you find what you can do.
You will be interested in my boards, Texas Rangers and other Notables of the Old West, and holster, belts chaps board. Some good searches on pinterest are saloons of the old west and towns of the old west. You can try searches for anything you might be specifically interested in. True West web site also has a lot of old west photos, not sure you might have to be a subscriber to see some of them.

Books
The Peacemakers, R.L Wilson
Cowboys and Trappings of the Old West, Mann Flood
I See by Your Outfit, Tom Lindmier and Steve Mount
Three Book Series The Wild West Contains, The Native Americans, The American Frontier, Age of the Gunfighter
Cowgirls Women of the Wild West
of course Packing Iron