What might be the problem?

SimmerinLightning · August 15, 2015, 09:18:11 PM

So I have had these two Uberti navies for a few years, but had never done anything but fondle them. Over the past few days I broke them down and cleaned them, and ran six rounds through one of them just to test it out.

Anyway, for no particular reason, I decided to swap the cylinders. Cylinder A works just fine in gun 2, but cylinder 2 will not work in gun A. It will advance through three chambers, but always locks up on the other three. It is always the same three.

Even if you take the cylinder off and manually put it back on such that one of these three chambers is under the hammer, the hammer will only draw back about a quarter inch or so- right at the point where you would expect the hand to first come into contact with the cylinder. It is then quite a PIA to get the thing back apart.

Ths is not an immediate issue, as I never intended to actually fire them this way, but it does concern me because I was planning to get a spare cylinder or two at some point. Yes, I know I don't need spare cylinders, but I have my reasons for wanting them. Obviously, though, I don't want to waste the money if they won't function properly or I don't know how to fix them.

Lefty Dude · August 16, 2015, 01:06:37 AM

Welcome to the world of Colt C & B revolvers.

45 Dragoon · August 16, 2015, 07:43:55 AM

You'll find that the hammer isn't going forward far enough to allow the bolt to reset. Probably a difference in the length of nipples ( are they snug?) or if the guns are different runs, may be the bearing ring on the recoil shield higher on one. Whatever, the hammer isn't coming forward enough to allow the bolt arm to reset over the hammer cam. This is why it stays in lock-up.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Also, could be locking notches cut deeper in one cylinder than the other. Or, length of nose of hammers . . . .

Coffinmaker · August 16, 2015, 09:09:12 AM

Welcome to the land of the DELUXE KIT!! For the most part, Uberti parts have to be "fit" to each gun. It is not at all unusual for Uberti cylinders to not interchange. In fact, it's du rigger. Something else you should look at, the Barrel to cylinder gap. There is a very good chance, there is insufficient barrel to cylinder gap for cylinder A in gun 2 and there is excess "run-out" of the cylinder face of the cylinder from gun 1.

Also. If you haven't first looked at and attended to the Barrel to Arbor fit of BOTH guns, you'll be chasing your tail trying to get the cylinders to "swap." Before you do ANYTHING else to ANY Uberti Open Top design gun, you must first correct the Barrel to Arbor fit.
99 and 44/100 % of the time, the fit is WAY out. If the gun functions out of the box, it's an accident.

Coffinmaker

SimmerinLightning · August 16, 2015, 09:35:46 AM

I took the nipples out and nothing changed. The cylinder gap is indeed very slight on both guns- I can't even see that there is a gap- but they don't seem to be dragging and spin freely on half-cock. Even if I remove the barrel the mechanism is still locked up and the hammer won't cock.

Yes, both arbors are about 1/16 inch short. I have been meaning to make some shims. But I don't pound the wedge in with a hammer either.

Pettifogger · August 16, 2015, 12:06:28 PM

As 45 Dragoon noted it sounds like the bolt is not resetting. During a tuneup it is not uncommon to have to relieve the area on the bottom of the bolt just above the hammer cam. As far as cylinder gap the hand pushes the cylinder forward and since there is no cylinder bushing the face of the cylinder will sit on the back of the barrel. To measure or see the gap you have to pull the cylinder to the rear.

Coffinmaker · August 16, 2015, 02:15:25 PM

I "quick fix" just to get ya headed in the right direction is your local hardware store. Couple of 5mm split washers. Drop a 5mm split washer down the hole in the barrel log and reassemble. Normally it will get you really close to a good barrel/cylinder fit. Until you get the barrel to arbor fit corrected, no matter how careful you are, you have a different gun EVERY time you take it apart and re-assemble.

Coffinmaker

SimmerinLightning · August 17, 2015, 10:43:03 AM

Okay, so is there any reason to think one of these guns would be unsafe to shoot out of the box? I'm not likely to have the money to send them off to anyone in the near term, but it is nice to be able to plink once in awhile.

wildman1 · August 17, 2015, 11:31:45 AM

Its not just Uberti's that you can't swap cylinders on. At least one of my pairs of Rugers will not interchange cylinders. I haven't tried the others. wM1

Pettifogger · August 17, 2015, 12:10:38 PM

Quote from: SimmerinLightning on August 17, 2015, 10:43:03 AM
Okay, so is there any reason to think one of these guns would be unsafe to shoot out of the box? I'm not likely to have the money to send them off to anyone in the near term, but it is nice to be able to plink once in awhile.

I would guess that 99.99999999999999% of the people that buy these guns do NOT read this forum. They shoot them out of the box. They might have some problems but unsafe? No, they are safe.

45 Dragoon · August 17, 2015, 12:26:27 PM

Ha!!!

Good Lord!! What is wrong with all those people?!!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

SimmerinLightning · August 17, 2015, 01:15:48 PM

Quote from: 45 Dragoon on August 17, 2015, 12:26:27 PM
Ha!!!

Good Lord!! What is wrong with all those people?!!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

I would speculate that maybe some of them don't want to come here, or anywhere else, and ask questions that might make them look stupid. I came to the realization, years ago, that most people already think I'm stupid, so it's like whatever, ya know? I might as well ask.

"I already have the guilt; might as well have the money too."

Coffinmaker · August 17, 2015, 04:07:49 PM

Well shucks, Pettifogger beat me to the draw. But, I'll "pile on" anyway

While Both Uberti and Pietta Cap Guns might not be "right" as they come out of the box, They do work. Stuff em full of powder and ball,
cap em up and they go BANG!! They are also perfectly safe "as is." Load and shoot em to your hearts content. Normally, I think a lot of potential Cap Gun shooters get frustrated and just throw em inna drawer and give up.
The other thing that happens, they are someplace shooting, and another cap jam gets on their last nerve and "anyone wanna give me a hunnert bucks for this thing?" Then I usually pull a couple of key muscles trying to get to my wallet fast enough

Most don't frequent this board. Nor, do they seek the services of such as 45Dragoon or Myself and Pettifogger, before we retired. I don't consider the questions asked to be dumb or stupid. I consider the folks that just throw the gun inna drawer to be stupid. When they run "right" they're just plain too much FUN!!

Shoot yours. Go to "The Open Range" and study Pettifoggers tips to set up a Cap Gun. Like I said, running right, Cap Guns are just too much FUN!!

Coffinmaker

Lefty Dude · August 18, 2015, 12:08:51 AM

Well stated Coffinmaker;

I live close to a Cabela's store. Many of the so called rejects by buyers are returned for many Issues, which are non-issues by me.
I pick them up in the Bargain Cave for considerable discount.
I have never paid the sticker price for any of my C&B revolvers, all have been purchased as returns and sold as-is.

45 Dragoon · August 18, 2015, 05:30:46 AM

I live near a Cabela's store as well and never thought of that Lefty! Great idea!!
I've thought about picking up a few guns and "fixing " them to offer on my website.
You're right Coffinmaker, a cb revolver running right is an amazing thing to possess!! It's hard to believe that an antiquated design such as the Colt cb revolvers can feel like the finest cartridge gun tuned to the max (especially the horse pistols!!) !! The genius of Sam Colt's design lives on for folks today!

Once again, the articles of Pettifogger combined with the Kuhnhausen book is about the best education of the Cap & Ball/ S.A. you can get!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Thumb Buster · August 18, 2015, 09:01:19 AM

We just got a Cabela's and I will definitely check that one! Excellent! Makes me happy.

Maybe not the better half but...

A C&B running smooth/correctly is definitely something to behold. Such a piece of art is Sam Colt's invention.

Coffinmaker · August 18, 2015, 01:52:28 PM

I just absolutely love it when someone comes up with the "better" idea and I can STEAL it

Lefty, your a genius!! I drive by a Cabelas twice a month (four times iffin you count outbound at 6 AM) on my way to a match I shoot
regularly. Never entered my feeble mind to stop in and lurk the Bargan Cave. Superb idea. Of course, I'm already up to my armpits in
Cap Guns, but there are always the rafters. Plenty of space up there

Yes sir. the vast majority of those returns would be for things "we" don't consider "faults." Just the normal things to be addressed as we get our DELUXE KIT ready for use. Amazingly good idea.

Coffinmaker