The "Perfect" Bullet

[Fox Creek Kid]

I've been playing around with the idea of having a custom mould maker make me a better .50 cal. bullet. I like the Rapine 350-T and it shoots great, but I feel "cheated" as it seats too deep to get a good 40-45 gr. BP in the Starline case. My idea is to shift some weight forward to the nose. I have a custom bullet mould that does this but alas, insufficient lube. I just sent a few of these to French Jack so maybe he'll chime in here. My idea is to make the lube groove shorter from anterior to posterior but also to make it deeper a la the "Big Lube" bullet grooves yet still have enough of a driving band to crimp well. I know my mould maker can do it because he made me a beautiful 4 hole mould in .44 cal. with a very deep lube groove. I really like the looks of Dakota Widowmaker's shortened Lee bullet but I wish it had deeper lube grooves. Alas, I hate casting one at a time. I do it for a Sharps and it can be laborious to say the least. My guy can make a three holer for approx. $125.00. Anybody else interested?

[French Jack]

Fox Creek Kid-- just received your package.  Thanks for the bullets and the boxes.  I think I will use them for a pattern to make some out of hardboard.
In looking over the bullets, the Rapine 350T I am familiar with.  It has the same seating depth as my Lyman, and the same nose length forward of the crimp groove as the LBT I have.  The other bullet you sent has a longer nose, but the lube groove is too little for one groove.  If you have to go with smaller grooves, you need at least three like the Lyman.  The problem is getting a short "in case" lenght with sufficient lube grooves.  The only way to do it and not end up with a buttonhole bullet that has problems with distortion is to go to a hollow base which you can fill with lube.  The hollow base is not the final answer either, as too heavy a load will blow out the skirt on them and cause erratic shots.  Take your pick.  I would rather have a decent lubed bullet than have a few grains more in my Spencer.  If I wanted a 50-70, I would get it instead.  The other option is to use Hogdon 777, as it is a bit hotter, I understand.  I think that I will try some just to see if it does the trick.  If it works well with the limitation imposed by the Spencer, I think it might be the way to go.   It won't smell the same, but it WILL Smoke.

p.s.-- Fox Creek, sent you a pm

[Hell-Er High Water]

As a thought, have you looked into using the modified Lee bullet that several us are using as a pattern and having the mould maker eliminate the center band, making one large lube groove rather than the two grooves.  This bullet has a lot of the weight forward and gives a loaded round length similar to the original Spencer round.  This groove could then be made as deep as you wanted.  The bullet can then be seated so that the case crimps on the front band or even the nose in front of the front band.  Crimping on the nose gives a smoother profile to the loaded cartridge for more reliable feeding.  Just a thought that you might look into.

Let us know what you finally end up with as I for one am always looking for "A Better Mousetrap", and a shooter just can't have too many bullet moulds.

HHW

[Fox Creek Kid]

Hell-Er High Water, I touched on that idea in my original post concerning that handsome revamped Lee bullet. I was hoping that Dakota Widowmaker would throw in a few samples with the sizer I ordered from him to test OAL feeding as well as powder capacity with that bullet. The elimination of the band would but eliminate a few grains of weight. I might even deepen the groove a tad. Maybe Dakota Widowmaker could lathe the middle band from one to see the weight.    French Jack, tell me how those bullets shoot in your smokepole. 

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

I got some of those modified LEE bullets from Hell er High Water (Thanks pard!) and now have the modified mold and sizer from Dakota Widowmaker.  I easily get 45 grains of FFG, and FFFG Goex, as well as 45 Grains of Triple 7, STOUT LOAD!!!!!

It is great.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Tuolumne Lawman, was that with Starline brass? Did you drop tube the powder? 45 gr. weighed or by volume? Which BP? How much compression? Inquiring minds want to know! 

[French Jack]

With both the Lyman 515139 and my LBT bullets, I get 34-35 gr. of FFg Wano in my Starline cases. Primer is a Fed LRM.  This gives me a load with avg. velocity of 900 fps. from my Taylor's.  That is powder droptubed and compressed about .030.  This load shoots very accurately from my carbine.  I am going to try some 777 loads today with the same bullets and see how they perform.  The 777 will be loaded with a comparable volume, I am not sure how the weight by grain will end up.  It will not be compressed quite as much, perhaps .010 or so, but it will be droptubed.
FCK-- will try out the bullets you sent me.  Results later.

[Hell-Er High Water]

Fox Creek Kid,

In the photo below, the bullet on the left is the bullet from the modified Lee mould.  The next bullet to the right is one that I machined out the middle band from giving it one large lube groove.  The loaded round is with the modified Lee bullet with the case crimped on the nose at the front of the front band.  This helps the feeding as there is no case mouth or front band to hang up when going through the action.  The bullet on the right is the Rapine 350-T bullet.

From this particular batch of wheelweights, the modified Lee bullet weighs 342 grains and the modified / modified Lee bullet weighs 326 grains.  For comparison, the Rapine bullet weighs 358 grains.



Maybe with this info, and the photo, your custom mould maker will at least have a place to start.  If he does come up with a design, like I said before, I would possibly be interested in a mould.

HHW

[Fox Creek Kid]

I like the looks of the "machined" bullet. However, I was told by a famous mould maker that the base of the bullet needs to be at least 0.090 thick before any grooves to prevent base "slumping". How he came up with that number I do not know, but it sounds reasonable.    A good idea would be to thicken the base and then deepen the diminished lube groove. The Romano Spencer bullet is like that. Thanks for the photos and the hard work!!

[Hell-Er High Water]

You know, I think that your mould maker has a point there.  When I got the center band machined out the base band looks awfully thin.  With the center band in, the base band looks like it has more support.  I like the idea of making the base band thicker and deepening the groove to make up for the lost lube capacity.  As the Rapine bullet has a thicker base band, I can send you a few of them for his reference if he needs them.  If he keeps the nose shape the same, the weight will still be forward and the seating depth will still allow a good volume of powder.  Keep me advised.

HHW

[French Jack]

A bullet that I am inquiring bout, but have not gotten a mould for is from NEI.  The designation is the 515-325 Lakota Spencer.  Bullet #378C.  With a huge grease groove, a hollow base (which will hold even more lube, the weight and overall length would very likely be ideal for the Taylor's Spencer .  The price for one in single cavity mould is $110, and $155 for double cavity in aluminum moulds, add $35 for meehanite.  There are a few more questions about the bullet dimensions that I am curious about, but it certainly looks like a good one for BP.  You can see it at www.NEIhandtools.com  , and look up catalog on the site.  I believe it is on page 14.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Larry Romano told me years ago that the Lakota design by NEI was designed by a friend of his trying to make a "better" Romano Spencer bullet. Here's the original Romano Spencer bullet at the top of the 2nd photo from the top left in the mould upside down in the following site:

http://www.romanorifle.com/html/accoutrements.html