*** Photos Added *** Spencer Model 1865 Questions

dw135O · March 09, 2015, 08:42:17 PM

Hello,

New to the forum. Am trying to help someone research and learn about the Model 1865 Spencer Repeating Rifle that they recently came across in the basement of a relatives home.

The rifle in question is stamped on the top of the barrel where it meets the receiver with M-1865. The top of the receiver is stamped with SPENCER REPEATING RIFLE CO, BOSTON, MASS PAT'D MARCH 6, 1860.

From the end of the receiver to the end of the barrel measures 28 5/16. The overall length of the gun is approx. 47 inches. Just to the stock side of the breech opening it is stamped 531. The same 531 is stamped into the bottom of the barrel, underneath the foregrip.

There are other markings in various places.

I would like to learn all that I can to pass along to the owner. This gun has been in their family for a number of years. When located in the basement it had been there for a number of years. I am slowly, carefully trying to coax the rust off. I understand that no Model 1865's served in the Civil War. Whatever knowledge that can be passed along would be most helpful. To date I have found no markings that would indicate US government service, but like more modern military arms there are a number of places on the weapon where initials and other markings have been found. The foregrip is short and appears to be a carbine foregrip. There is no saddle ring though, and the barrel is to long to be a carbine barrel. With the numbers matching on the receiver and under the barrel it would seem to be that the gun is in as built condition. There is no Stabler cutoff. The action is very smooth in operation, despite its years of sitting and the trigger drops the hammer with no problem. Pictures will be coming soon

(Photos Posted by Two Flints

Thanks
Dave

Herbert · March 10, 2015, 03:11:21 AM

Interesting low number 1865 rifle(very good chance it is one of the fist 300 sold to Canadian goverment).Need more photos of barrel.if it is a sporting rifle there should be two dove tail tennons to hold the for stock on,one if it a military rifle, also the front sight shape can tell what it is

KEN S · March 10, 2015, 06:32:56 AM

very interesting gun. don't even THINK about using sandpaper please.
could it be a cut down rifle? no saddle ring and a longer barrel makes me think that.
soak it in some penetrating oil, not the wood...and the rust should slowly come off..
Ken

dw135O · March 10, 2015, 05:04:27 PM

Ken S.

I'm definitely not using sandpaper. Lots of oil.
____________

In regards to the dove tail tennons not sure what you are asking about. I can try to get a bright enough picture of the sight, what do you need to see? No evidence of barrel being cut that I can see

Dave

Herbert · March 11, 2015, 03:01:19 AM

I can see one dove tail for a screw post in your photos(this is for the military rifle,Sporting rifles have two of these as they do not use a barrel band on the for stock.military rifles have fixed sight ,sporting rifles have a different front sight that slides in a dove tail,from every thing I can see so far I would think this is a early 1865 rifle ( I can not see the for stock to make a judgment on what happened there

KEN S · March 11, 2015, 06:57:50 AM

HI Dave. this is interesting because I have a Burnside 1865 # 1938.....early carbine too.
mine was sent back to Springfield and had the stabler put on, and as all of them, the lower half of
the address buffed off when they 'rounded' the action.
Mine has a 'rack number?' stamped into the wood 435 near the butt.
the gun shoots great, and I was at the range yesterday with it. These old thing still work. Of course I fitted mine with
a center-fire breach block.
You have a nice old gun and I'm sure it can be brought back.
I did this for decades, restoring old guns...retired now, but still play with them for myself.
Never found one I couldn't repair.
in the bore, put some valve grinding compound on a rag , (any automotive store, tube is $5), and give it full length strokes to clean out the crud.. I use Ballistol, but any good oil, Hoppes, will do.
Any questions, let me know....Ken

dw135O · March 12, 2015, 06:53:27 AM

Quote from: Herbert on March 11, 2015, 03:01:19 AM
I can see one dove tail for a screw post in your photos(this is for the military rifle,Sporting rifles have two of these as they do not use a barrel band on the for stock.military rifles have fixed sight ,sporting rifles have a different front sight that slides in a dove tail,from every thing I can see so far I would think this is a early 1865 rifle ( I can not see the for stock to make a judgment on what happened there

Now I got you. No there is only the one screw post. Though the foregrip is short, it has one barrel band on it. When I first started looking at this gun and the web I thought it was a carbine because of the foregrip, all the military models I saw pictures of had long foregrips that extended most if not all of the barrel.

Dave

Herbert · March 12, 2015, 03:51:56 PM

Spencer rifles were a often sporterised after military use in there day,somtimes by just shortening the for stock to full make overs by well known gunsmiths.The rifle pictured would be very simple be put back to military spects from parts from S&S,but to me the cut down for stock would not be a problem,others may want to go to original spects as there is a very good chance this is one of the Canadian contract rifles

dw135O · March 14, 2015, 01:04:13 PM

Quote from: Herbert on March 12, 2015, 03:51:56 PM
Spencer rifles were a often sporterised after military use in there day,somtimes by just shortening the for stock to full make overs by well known gunsmiths.The rifle pictured would be very simple be put back to military spects from parts from S&S,but to me the cut down for stock would not be a problem,others may want to go to original spects as there is a very good chance this is one of the Canadian contract rifles

Herbert,

The front side is not dovetailed. If you were looking down the barrel it almost looks like the front sight is in the shape of a house with a sloped roof meeting in the middle. The center of the front sight structure lloks like it is a brass inserted into the house.

I
/ \
| |

Sort of that but the slope of the roof is more pronounced and the I (which represents the brass insert?) is actually in a slot in the top of the structure.

Don't know if this helps or not but the rear sight is marked with a 2 up to an 8

Thanks again for all the help. Is there a way to determine if this is a Canadian Contract gun?

Dave

Blair · March 14, 2015, 02:08:57 PM

Dave,

How are you measuring your barrel length?

Are you measuring the barrel forward of the receiver?
Or are you including that part of the barrel that extends back into the receiver to the breech block opening?
My best,
Blair

dw135O · March 15, 2015, 09:06:39 PM

Quote from: Blair on March 14, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
Dave,

How are you measuring your barrel length?

Are you measuring the barrel forward of the receiver?
Or are you including that part of the barrel that extends back into the receiver to the breech block opening?
My best,
Blair

I'm measuring the barrel forward of the receiver

Blair · March 16, 2015, 08:01:16 AM

Dave,

The overall barrel length for a Spencer made "Rifle" should be 30 inches.
Try measuring from the breech block opening in the receiver to the muzzle.
I think you will find your barrel is the correct OAL.
My best,
Blair

dw135O · March 29, 2015, 10:30:12 PM

Quote from: Blair on March 16, 2015, 08:01:16 AM
Dave,

The overall barrel length for a Spencer made "Rifle" should be 30 inches.
Try measuring from the breech block opening in the receiver to the muzzle.
I think you will find your barrel is the correct OAL.
My best,
Blair

Blair,

When I measure the barrel as you described the process, it does measure 30 inches. As I get the grime and rust to slowly disappear I have found a number of different stamp/proof marks. Under the barrel band were what appear to be two different P's.

Dave