UBERTI wood quality vs. New Winchesters

[stuck_in_73]

What is the difference in wood quality of the Uberti 1873 rifle stock vs the New Miroku Winchester 1873 rifles? Just kind of wondering. I do like the case coloring on the buttplate and nose cap on the new Winchesters.

[Abilene]

What is the difference in wood quality of the Uberti 1873 rifle stock vs the New Miroku Winchester 1873 rifles? Just kind of wondering. I do like the case coloring on the buttplate and nose cap on the new Winchesters.

Quality of what aspect?  Uberti uses European walnut, don't know what Miroku uses.  Uberti uses a thick (Urethane?) finish, including a red dye that some don't like but is an authentic color.  Not sure what Miroku uses to seal the finish, but it has more the look of an oil finish in appearance, not nearly as shiny as the Uberti.  Uberti tends to be fitted pretty well to the frame.  I've seen some Mirokus that were fitted well and some that were proud.  The blued Mirokus I've seen had very plain wood (mostly, some were nicer) and the case colored ones had very nice grain.  Ubertis are kind of like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates, you just never know what you're gonna get until you open the box!  Some are dull, dull.  Some are awesome!  Yep, the case colored buttplate and nose cap are nice.  That was one nice thing Chapparral had with their '73's, though their wood was usually very plain.

[Cannon Jockey]

Just to add to what Abilene said.     I have 3 Uberti 1873's and two Miroku 1873's--plus one original.   See the "show us your 1873" thread for pictures.   Pound for pound the Uberti is a more accurate reproduction of a New Haven made 1873 than the Miroku is with the one exception of the wood.    European walnut in it's natural state is grayish brown tending toward tan.  That's why they put a red tinted gloss varnish on it.   Sometimes it comes out looking good and sometimes garish.   It's also hard to refinish and get it looking right.

Winchester mostly used straight grained American walnut (also called black walnut) which had a satin oil finish.  Of course back in the day, one could pay for premium grade wood in a Winchester and choose a glossy varnish if they wanted.   I have read that the oil Winchester used also had a light red tint to it, but regardless the Uberti wood just never looks quite right even when they do look pretty.

Miroku only uses American walnut, but in different grades from production run to run generally with a satin oil finish.   Consequently, once again what you get is sort of luck of the draw, unless the production run is clearly labeled to have been fitted with premium wood.  They have run some collector grade versions of their 1892's, 1886's, and 1895's with a high gloss varnish over figured wood, but then those are usually intended for collector show pieces rather than normal use.

From what I have seen, the Miroku made Winchesters do come with the wood well fitted to the metal, but slightly proud and this is a good thing IMHO, since it allows for future stock refinishes and sanding to correct for handling marks.  

Below is a comparison shot starting at top with a Uberti in 45 Colt followed by the 1891 original inherited from gramps in 38-40 cal. with the Miroku 44-40 long rifle next and Miroku .357 mag short rifle on bottom


The Uberti at top is the least attractive IMO, just because of that glossy red tinted finish.  I have another newer Uberti special sporting rifle (checkered pistol grip stock) and although darker, it looks much better than this one.

Of course the grandpa's original has over 120 years of oil and handling in its wood, but it's pretty much unfigured straight grained American (black) walnut that came with a simple oil finish.    His rifle also came in a standard blued finish, which has now turned mostly grey/plum/brown.  It was a working farm/hunting  rifle for almost 60 years, but it's still tight with a great bore. .  


Although both of the Miroku 1873's have an oil finish, you can easily spot the difference in the wood of the two rifles.   The butt stock of the short rifle at bottom has a straight grain, but seems to have a bit of a tiger stripe while the forearm does not.  It's OK, but the two pieces of wood don't seem to match up too well for the same rifle. (luck of the draw again)   Most of the other short rifles from Miroku that I have seen pictured at the auction sites have plain standard grade straight grain wood although I have seen a couple that came with very nice wood similar to what I got with the Miroku sporting rifle.

The wood on the longer barreled sporting rifle was listed as grade II/III, so it was intended to be premium wood.   It's still oil finished American walnut, but a premium grade with lots of marble figuring.   Also the fore and aft wood is a much better match.  It's simply gorgeous in person and I am more than pleased with it.

Having to bring American walnut to Japan for the production of their Winchesters probably contributes to the higher cost and I suspect that if Uberti started doing this, their prices would have to be raised also.   Pedersoli uses American walnut for most of their black powder reproductions of American firearms and they are all priced higher accordingly.  

Cheers

[stuck_in_73]

Thank you guys. You guys are freakin experts. Abilene, I've read a lot of your posts/replys on other posts and always thought you were spot on with everything. Cannon, awesome detail dude. Nice rifles too! I have an Uberti 73' in .45 colt. I absolutely love that gun. I told my wife I wish I would've waited to get the new Winchesters but am seriously thinking about getting another 73' but a Winchester/Miroku one. Can you have more than one 1873? Lol.

[stuck_in_73]

Cannon how does your Miroku 73 shoot? Is it butter smooth action like the Uberti's? Any noticeable differences anywhere between the Miroku and Uberti's? Is your Miroku tapped for a tang sight?

[Blackpowder Burn]

I just handled a Winchester/Miroku standard grade carbine today.  The action is extremely smooth right out of the box and the wood was gorgeous.  I'd take the Winchester over the Uberti any day.

[Cannon Jockey]

Cannon how does your Miroku 73 shoot? Is it butter smooth action like the Uberti's? Any noticeable differences anywhere between the Miroku and Uberti's? Is your Miroku tapped for a tang sight?

Since I only received the octagon barreled sporting rifle this week, I have not shot it, but I've had the short rifle since this summer and have put about 500 rounds through it--some .357 mag, but mostly 38 spl.--the majority were my reloads.   It has performed without a hiccup.   In my experience with the Miroku and the several Uberti's I've shot and handled, the Miroku was much smoother
from the get go.

The springs are also lighter out of the box plus the lever stroke is about 15% less than a Uberti or an original.  It's obvious they were hoping to catch some of the CAS market.

--and yes, the Miroku's come pre-drilled and tapped for a tang sight.  The Marble's sight on my long rifle in the picture took all of a minute or two to mount right out of the box.  

I mentioned earlier that my only real complaint with the Uberti was the red tinted glossy European walnut they have used for years.  However, I just got back from a local gun show today where a dealer had a Uberti 1873 sporting rifle in .45 Colt on his table.  It's wood did not look like the typical Uberti, but instead looked like American walnut with a satin finish.     I figured the guy must have refinished it, so I asked if he had.  He said no, it was brand new just like it came from the factory,  but he could not tell me if the wood was European or American.

Either way, if Uberti has made a change in their wood and wood finish, it's certainly for the better.   If I hadn't just blown my gun purchase money for quite some time on the new Miroku, I would have snapped it up.

IMHO, the real down side to a Miroku/Winchester is the extra cost.  It ain't nearly as pretty as the rifle.

Cheers

[Cliff Fendley]

Uberti's red color on the stock is much closer to the original Winchester color than is the Miroku. Some of the originals in really clean condition are almost an exact match colorwise. I don't know if they were that red looking when new or not. I've not been able to find a color photograph of one 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Uberti's red color on the stock is much closer to the original Winchester color than is the Miroku. Some of the originals in really clean condition are almost an exact match colorwise. I don't know if they were that red looking when new or not. I've not been able to find a color photograph of one  

Well, looky here.  


http://merzantiques.com/photo/fantastic-winchester-model-1873-3rd-model-pistol-grip-deluxe-rifle-in-44-40

http://merzantiques.com/item/model-1860-henry-rifle

[wildman1]

But still a picture of a "100+ year old rifle" not a picture taken when the 100 year old rifle was new. wM1

[Cliff Fendley]

But still a picture of a "100+ year old rifle" not a picture taken when the 100 year old rifle was new. wM1

Correct 

[yahoody]

Well, looky here.  

and no where near the color of a Uberti IMO.

[MJN77]

On the last six Uberti guns I have bought, including two 1873 rifles, five of them didn't have that real red shi.....color on them. They had more of a brownish hue to them. A couple of them weren't even as "red" as the original rifles in FCK's links and one was pretty much just brown. All but one were bought new. Don't know if I just got lucky or if Uberti changed the color a bit, but that's my experience.

[Cliff Fendley]

The rifle pictured in the above link is a deluxe version and all of the ones I've seen with fancy wood seem to be a lighter color than the more basic 73's. I have one with a half round barrel and wood with more figure and even though it has been well used it is a little more blondish looking than the others.

Uberti seems to be the same way, the three guns I have with upgraded wood are less red.

My 73 Uberti with upgraded wood appears to be real close to the Winchester in the above link. In my photos the lighting was pretty bad and just snapped with a cheap digital camera. If anything the original Winchester looks more reddish.

[yahoody]

Agreed Cliff, your deluxe Uberti does indeed look (more) like a Winchester.  It is a beautiful rifle.  Typical Uberti red fill/finish doesn't.
Some of the standard "red" guns are worse than others from Uberti.  Some of those REALLY bad IMO.

I have seen a dozen or so of the new Turnbull/ Winchster '73s.  And I think your Uberti has a better looking, more traditional finish than the Navy Arms/Winchester/Turnbull guns.  But they are close.  Have to say though edge goes to your Uberti by the pictures to date.

[stuck_in_73]

That's a nice looking rifle Cliff.

[wildman1]

Got some really nice grain on that wood. wM1

[Cliff Fendley]

Thanks fellas, I ordered that one to compliment the original Winchester with a half round barrel I mentioned.