Euroarms '58 Rem NMA

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

My Euroarms/Armi San Paolo '58 rem arrived today. it was listed as 98 percent. Inf fact it is NIB unfired. Still has all the factory grease in the bore and chambers, cyl pin etc.
No markings on the gun other than the number of the frame and bbl and the s/n. Frame number and DGG cast in stamp are under the grips. the bbl number is on the bottom flat almost covered by the cyl. pin. The grips are numbered to the frame.
Date of production may be impossible to determine it has the Euroarms Yellow box and the S/N on the box and the frame are one and same. Form fit and function rival uberti and Pietta. Blue is very nice.

Now for the interesting things.

The Chambers are chamfered. The area of the Chamber where the ball rides is .450,  below the ball area it mic's .448-.449 I slugged the bbl and the grooves are .448-.449 lands are ,439-.440. Chamber/Bore aligns perfectly on all six chambers. I tyhink this baby will shoot!

The Uberti cylinder from the carbine drops into the frame and indexes properly. The cylinder from the Euroarms will drop into the Uberti Carbine and will index but not properly, as I believe the bolt is a tish wider than the Euroarms or the Euroarms bolt may be located a tish , but lockup is solid when it doesn't skip. Could be the hand/pawl interaction is off but I'm not going to push swappin the Euroarms Cylinder swap into the Uberti, The Uberti into the Euroarms is another story.

This pistol feels almost as good to me as Smoking_Gun's  Older Armi San Paolo.  The grips May, like Oldelm stated in his post on his Euroarms '58 , are a bit thicker than the older ASP of SG's but not enough to hindr me. I love how it feels and the heft is as much like SG's that I'm a happy camper...Pietta's crawling into the corner looking for a new home.....LOL!!

[hellgate]

Charlie,
Look near the proof marks for a rectangle with letters or Roman numerals inside the rectangle. That'll give you the code for the date of manufacture. Post the letters inside and I'll look up its birth date.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

hellgate,
Thanks,
It is a NIB gun, but I have found that the Pistol has been defarbed, the box with the 2 letters was in front of the TG on the bottom of the frame. just a ghost of it remains and is unreadable also I suspect that the proofs were on the upper forward flat of the frame in front of the cylinder as this area is turning plum in that area. like it was reblued. it is older I know because the TG is not shiny, but tarnished.

I have the symbols and proofs that was online up to 2003. My only clue would be the S/N...if they are continous.
Someone posted the beretta website for the symbols and proofs but i didn't get it copied off. I could use acid to raise thw box and letters but it's not worth the hassle. I might be able to pput it under a microscope and see a ghost of the letter, but again I don't really care that much.

No matter I like the pistol a lot. I'm thinking of getting it a mate.
Just loaded 35 grn(weighed) FFG and it almost wasn't enough to seat the ball. It did seat and compress the powder...but I'd like a little more crush before the rammer bot
tomed out.

[Oldelm]

Hey Charlie,...Congrats on gettin your new Euroarms!  Sounds like you got a good one and are happy with it. I'm excited for ya!

Yep,...once again, looks like the .44 Rem Euroarms are consistent with their nice tight bore at .448-.449.
Are there 6 numbers on your serial # ? The one I just got from S&S is a 2003 (BT) and has 6 numbers in serial #, and the BT within a square is just forward of the cylinder on the upper frame,...just like yours.

Here's that Beretta website that lists proof mark/year date............
http://www.berettaweb.com/DL1.htm

I'll bet Euroarms could tell you the year of manufacture from the serial #.

I've been making new grips for mine in Tiger Maple,...will have to post some pics when I'm done. They're coming out nice.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

The little box with the letters was on the bottom of the frame in front of the TG. There is a ghosting still there.
S?/N is Six Numbers  11487X, I think  the proofs were on the upper right frame forward of the cylinder as this area is turning plum from reblueing?
I'll try to post some comparison pictures with the Euro and the Pietta, Quite a difference in frame size and grip frame size.  Grips are like yours a bit more substancial than SG's older ASP '58, but really a lot different than the Pietta's and the Faux ivory. They feel really great.

I have an extra set of Ivory like grips for the Pietta, I may cut them down for the Euro.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Thought I'd show some of the differences in the frames of the Uberti(carbine) and the Pietta and the Euroarms
'58 Rem.'s. (a copy of the Remington-Beals Old Army)

Euroarms/Pietta '58 Rem comparison. The Pietta looks massive next to the Euroarms and feels that way to me too.


Euroarms/Pietta Comparison. Notice how much shorter the frame of the Euroarms is than the Pietta.


Euroarms '58 and a 14 year old Uberti Carbine frame comparison. Notice how much shorter and smaller the Euroarms Frame is than the Uberti (of course this Uberti is a carbine and so no comparison in grip frame is available.)

[hellgate]

GREAT PHOTOS!!! I've been wanting someone to do that for years. Note how much thicker the frame & barrel are on the Pietta. For years I've been describing the Pietta as "clunky" or heavy when handled compared to the Uberti and expecially the Euroarms guns.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I knew I had to change to Euroarms when  I handled Smoking_Gun's(on another forum) Armi San Paolo(Euroarms is Armi San paolo after they moved) older '58 Rem. it handled like an original and his looks the part and i thought it was in the beginning. Miy Euroarms is great and I know she'll shoot, the Chambers are .450 where the ball seats and .448-.449 below, the bore is .449 Grooves and .439-.440 lands. and the chambes align perfectly.
I'm itching to go shoot it. I have another on the way.

I wouldn't call the Pietta "clunky" just bigger all the way around. The Euroarms fits my hands perfectly.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I'm doing research on what model exactly Euroarms/Armi San Paolo used to make their NMA version. Turns out it is an early Remington-Beals framed Old Army, one of only 3,000 MFG. I went to Flayderman's Guide last night as Euro had told me they copied a Rem.-Beals to make their Model. that statement was right and wrong. Their copy doesn't look like a Beals. but it is exactly like the R-B Old Model Army. Mystery solved.  Only 6,000 Remington Old Model Army's were produced and midway into the production the frame changed to the NMA type frame with exposed bbl threads and a slightly longer cyl. pin notch. The Remington Old Model Army (aka Model 1861) was only made in 1862 then the NMA came on the scene.
Picture below shows the difference in the frames at the Breech end of the bbl and the cyl. pin notches

[Comanche Kid]

To All,
            I have owned many '58 Remmies, all makes and in two calibers. I can say that beyond a reasonable doubt, I like the Euroarms .36 the best. I have a smaller hand and it fits like it was made for me. I would reccomend one of these fine shooters for anyone with a smaller hand size. In the end they all shoot the same. It's like comparring GMC to Chevy. I do wish I was around to shoot some of the originals when they were first issued. Then I would have something to compare the repros to. Just My Two Bits........

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Well, I'll let the cat out of the bag here.
I purchased an Remington-Beals Navy Belly Gun from one of the members on this forum. I should have it here this next week. It is an early Remington-Beals with a s/n 11X, which is the very first of the runZOf the Remington-Beals Navy Model, one of the first 200 that had a pin installed about 1 1/2 " in front of the cyl. pin. to keep the cyl. pin from being able to be pulled without lowering the lever.  Being cut down bbl to approx 3 inch in length, the pin and loading lever have been removed. However the frame is fantastic as are the bore/cylinder,nipples and grips.



When I get it home I'll compare with the Euroarms to see just how close they really are. Ofcource my Euroarms is an Army Frame and the Belly Gun is a Navy. I have owned original Remington -Beals before as well as Original Remingtons and I do believe that the Euroarms is going to be closer to the originals. We will find out shortly.

[Oldelm]

Charlie,...congrats on your new-old Remington Beals!   Nice looking gun,....how long ago was the barrel shortened, got any idea?  The grips look small like the Euroarms,...but I know you can't be entirely sure from a pic.,......but they do look that way.  Will you try shooting this one?

I got the Euroarms Remington Navy in the mail yesterday,...and will post pics , etc. in that other thread that you started for the Rem Navy.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

 Oooooh, that's nice. What a great pistol. Congrats. It's hard to tell from the photo, so when you get it, please post a good picture showing how the cylinder pin is held in. I may have to make one of those.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Marshall Will,

I'll do a side by side and more pictures when I get it here I'm going to see how close the Euroarms really is to an Original Remington-Beals. The Navy frame of the original is a tish smaller than the original army frame so the original Rem-Beals Frame should be a tish smaller than the Euroarms Army..if it is indeed a true exact copy. Guess we'll see soon enough.

Oldelm.
I used to own an originalRremington-Beals and Ii remember it feeling so good too. With the S/N being so low a number I didn't feel like I could let it go. It has old target sights on it, I'm hoping that it was cut during period of use(if I shoot it does that make it still period of use...LOL). It is a shame that it was cut being that early of a Remington-Beals, but had it not been cut, I could not have afforded it either.  Add said it was in great shape and if Wyatt Emp Says it, it is so.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks, pard. I'm looking forward to seeing that.

[sundance44`s]

Marshal your gonna need a bigger hat ..( beam me up Scotty )

[sundance44`s]

Nice going on the Beals Charlie ... we`ll have to see more pictures .

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Marshal your gonna need a bigger hat ..( beam me up Scotty )

Yeah, I was in a different mood last night. I'll change it back soon.