Seeking Historic Anecdotes of use of Pocket Guns and Derringers

Flaco Joe · August 25, 2014, 01:01:33 PM

Howdy,

My club is putting on a display at a local gun show on "Cowboy Concealed Carry", featuring a variety of pocket models, derringers, vest and muff guns, and cut-down big-bore revolvers such as Avenging Angels.

I'm seeking period stories of people using or being shot with pocket guns. Maybe a sheriff who was cut down with a hideaway? Maybe a soild dove who took out a non-payng customer? Maybe a lady who defender her honor with a purse gun? Maybe a gambler who stopped a cheat with a derringer?

If anyone can provide me with names and the gun(s) used, that would be great.

Thanks in advance

Major 2 · August 25, 2014, 07:37:02 PM

I suggest to read about Dallas Stoudenmire.
He carried a cut down Richard's & Mason conversion in his leather lined coat pocket...
He was killed by Doc Manning ( one of the Manning Brothers ) who also carried a belly gun.

MJN77 · August 25, 2014, 09:07:38 PM

Another El Paso character was Bass Outlaw. An ex Texas Ranger, who's fall from grace, like Stoudenmire's, was fueled by the "demon drink". Outlaw used a cut down 44-40 to murder Ranger Joe McKidrict and was, in turn, mortally wounded by Constable John Sellman. (Sellman would murder Wes Hardin the following year) Here's Bass's Colt.

Major 2 · August 26, 2014, 05:24:26 AM

Another I'd offer, was Orrin Porter Rockwell, the Avenging Angel of the Mormon Church.

Will Ketchum · August 26, 2014, 11:41:52 AM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "Pubic Arch" shooting when prostitute Etta Clark shot Fat Alice Abbot, her rival.

You can read the details at http://ramblingbob.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/old-west-prostitutes-the-public-arch-shooting/

One of my many books pictures the revolver but I didn't find the article. It was a pocket pistol however.

Will Ketchum

Blair · August 26, 2014, 12:42:46 PM

In the movie Rooster Cougburn, he gives the Indian boy, Wolf, a .22 cal. Pepper Box pistol, to help protect Miss. Nightingale.
Rooster explains it was used on a Madam that dressed out at about 300 lbs. But, none of the bullets found their way to any of her vitals.
Yes, it is a movie, but one of the better parts.

My best,
Blair

JohnsonBarr · August 26, 2014, 02:56:58 PM

Etta was actually shot in the 'Public Arch' according to the newspaper article of the day. An obvious mis-speling
considering the point of impact. One might also think 'Pocket' pistol was also an intentional mis-speling.

Will Ketchum · August 26, 2014, 05:18:16 PM

Quote from: JohnsonBarr on August 26, 2014, 02:56:58 PM
Etta was actually shot in the 'Public Arch' according to the newspaper article of the day. An obvious mis-speling
considering the point of impact. One might also think 'Pocket' pistol was also an intentional mis-speling.

I meant to type "public" kind of a reverse typo

Octagonal Barrel · August 27, 2014, 12:56:57 AM

Quote from: Will Ketchum on August 26, 2014, 11:41:52 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "Pubic Arch" shooting when prostitute Etta Clark shot Fat Alice Abbot, her rival.

You can read the details at http://ramblingbob.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/old-west-prostitutes-the-public-arch-shooting/

One of my many books pictures the revolver but I didn't find the article. It was a pocket pistol however.

Will Ketchum

With the Flaco Joe's interest in a gun show display of old west self defense guns, it seems to me this story could be a centerpiece. Modern gun forums abound with arguments about stopping power and FBI penetration standards. Clearly Etta didn't stop to consult stopping power charts or ballistic gel tests, she simply grabbed a (probably small caliber) pocket pistol and used it, and it saved her (probably expensive) derriere. Clear lack of stopping power, but it sufficed for the incident. There should be some real interest in modern perceptions of self defense needs versus the practicalities of old west self defense.

I also wonder if Fat Alice wasn't the inspiration for the story Blair mentioned from the Rooster Cogburn movie? Fat madam and small caliber self defense gun with no stopping power but used effectively seems like a theme.

Flaco Joe, I wish I could see that show myself. I hope you'll take photos and post a thread presenting the show here at CAS City.

Major 2 · August 27, 2014, 06:08:04 AM

The OP also mentioned derringers...

Probably the most infamous was John Wilkes Booth's Philadelphia Derringer

Blair · August 27, 2014, 09:39:59 AM

Octagonal Barrel,

I too thought the Rooster Cogburn story may have been based on the "Public Arch" shooting.
My best,
Blair

Shotgun Franklin · August 27, 2014, 12:41:08 PM

Bill Tilghman was reportedly killed with a pocket pistol, of course that was in 1924.

Flaco Joe · September 01, 2014, 12:43:16 AM

Thanks for the good leads, everyone. Octagon Barrel, I will post some photos of the display.

I already thought of an Avenging Angel. I am having one built right now for my own pleasure. I have also been loaned by other club members the following: Remington .31, Colt 1849, Colt 1862, snub-nose 1860 Army (ala Stoudenmire), a S&W #2, a Colt .22 single shot, a Remington .41 derringer, and a Philidelphia Deringer like the one used on President Lincoln. Got many others that have been offered for the display.

I appreciate everyone's help.

Flaco Joe