The Old West in the Old South (not often talked about)

[Doug.38PR]

Hello forum members!  

Just got to thinking.  When most people think of the Old Western frontier, they think of Prairies, plains, tall grass, mesas, mountains, cactus.  Western states/territories like Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Kansas, the Dakotas or even California come to mind.  But Southern states are almost never brought up or thought of.  The only exception, and Southern state that possibly comes to mind even more than the above mentioned states when one thinks of the Cowboy and Outlaw, is Texas.  The Lone Star State.  

However, we tend to forget that Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri (west of the Mississippi) and even states like Mississippi, Tennessee and Florida were frontier too.

True Grit takes place in Arkansas and Oklahoma.  In real life John Wesley Hardin was arrested and captured by Texas Rangers in Florida.  Nathan Bedford Forrest, before he was a Wizard of the Saddle in the War was also a Constable in Mississippi (and a pretty good gunfighter with nerves of steel)  

BUT, we never really hear about anything that happened after the War in the South except for Reconstruction and how a lot of other Southerners drifted into Texas and the West to be cowboys herding cattle from Texas to Kansas and Missouri.  

But what about after Reconstruction.  What about 1877 forward?  Who were some famous outlaws and lawmen and incidents in, say Louisiana or Mississippi?    I live in north Louisiana and was wondering this.   What kind of guns did they prefer?  

I do know my great great great grandfather Capt. John Lewis Conner was a Sheriff or Constable in Winston County, Mississippi.

[Bibbyman]

I call it revisionist history.   More outlaw activity happened in Missouri than people remember.   Kansas-Missouri border war, guerrilla warfare during the War of Yankee Agression,  Younger and James gang and many more, first gunfight by Wild Bill Hickok took place in Springfield Mo.  Ran the Mormons out of the state.  Santa Fa Trail started in Missouri.  Daniel Boone lived most of his life in Missouri.  John Wayne wanted to drive his beef to Sedalia,  Missouri.  Elmer Keith was born in Missouri.

[St8LineLeatherSmith]

Georgia had several famous frontiersmen, lawmen and outlaws.

[Grenadier]

Southern West Virginia until shortly before WW2.

I bet ole Devil Anse Hatfield would have not given a second thought to guys like Billy the Kid and Jesse James 

[Galloway]

I whole heartedly  agree with the topic, the old east is totally under emphasized it the study of the period. As far as guns go, the same guns well known throughout the west, were also being put to much use in the east. I'll go as far as to say I believe there were more colt, smith, winchester, and remington firearms east of the mississippi than west, until well after the turn of the century. 

[Major 2]

I've written a article for the Shootist (NCOWS) about Edgar J. Watson ( Florida outlaw )
and several more about Cracker Cowboys & Cow Hunters and Cattle Barons of Florida.

[Fox Creek Kid]

...I'll go as far as to say I believe there were more colt, smith, winchester, and remington firearms east of the mississippi than west, until well after the turn of the century. 

IMO, it's often hard to tell. Usually the states that were decades removed away from Indian warfare, and in which there was little banditry, seem to have a paucity of "classic" Old West firearms and logically so. A shotgun being more practical for small game harvesting. As well, it seems that at gun shows in MT, WY, CA, etc., seem to have far more of these classic Old West guns. However, in all objectivity they may have been transported there at a later date than the 19th century. It is often hard to pin down w/o certain provenance.

[flyingcollie]

Re/ the initial post, it's true that history during the "cowboy period", say, 1860-1910 is pretty wild and wooly most anywhere in the country, (even NooYawk*) and well worth the reading. I'd say the "distinction" of "west" versus rip-roaring adventures and gunplay anywhere else in the country is the fact that until the US Census declared the "Frontier" officially "closed" in 1890, there just wasn't that vast expanse of wide-open, vacant and unpopulated land other than in the West, and that's part of the mystique. For the same reason (i.e., very few people) doubtless there were more firearms in "the East" than anywhere. Winchester's 1876 catalog includes a scad of testimonials from happy owners, all but two from east of the Mississippi, and one of them was "Buffalo Bill"

(*statistically, during the period, folks were "safer" from gunplay and mayhem in Dodge City than in New York City !!)

[Doug.38PR]

Re/ the initial post, it's true that history during the "cowboy period", say, 1860-1910 is pretty wild and wooly most anywhere in the country, (even NooYawk*) and well worth

(*statistically, during the period, folks were "safer" from gunplay and mayhem in Dodge City than in New York City !!)

Tom Woods discusses this fact in his book 32 Questions yourre not supposed to ask about american history

[Doug.38PR]

Countless TV shows and movies are made about Kansas, Wyoming, California, Nevada, Texas on the plains and mesas.  Wouldn't it be great to have one about a frontier town in north Louisiana in the piney woods, sloughs and delta country. 

[St. George]

Those movies and stories came to be because that's where the West was actually located, and that wasn't east of the Missouri - the jumping off point was St. Louis.

They stretched the boundaries whenever stories included New Orleans - but that place could be included in many facets because of it's place in history as a port, a den of iniquity, a destination, and so on and so forth.

Scouts Out!

[Doug.38PR]

Well, the boundaries of the west actually started out at the western edge of Virginia, Georgia and the Carolinas in the late 1700s.  What's now called the MidWEST used to be called the "old northWEST" settled by men from Virginia and the South was called the "old Southwest".  Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie, William B. Travis, Sam Houston started from Virginia and South Carolina and started homes in places like Tennessee, Alabama, Kentucky and Louisiana and ultimately Texas.   The Midwest and the Old South were actually part of the West.  Even in the days of the Founding Fathers, the South was often called the "West" and the North referred to as the "East".   Thomas Jefferson once suggested that both part their own separate ways if it be for their benefit.

The late Professor Grady McWhiny in his book Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways of the Old South discusses the frontier habits and culture of the Old South such as the practice of herding.  Cattle and Pigs were herded on the open range in states like Alabama, Mississippi, Florida and eventually moved into Texas as settlements moved west behind them.

Looks like around the 1850s people began to think of everything "West of the Mississippi" or west of Missouri (IOW, anything that was common U.S. Territory and not a State) was considered "The West."    Everything from Minnesota east was the North and everything from Texas east was the South.  

[Doug.38PR]

http://laroadtrips.com/issue/july-august-2013/article/exploits-of-the-james-gang-in-north-louisiana

http://www.bastropenterprise.com/article/20100724/News/307249998#307249998/?Start=1&_suid=1401472459577042549412125483166





Lookie what I found.  Jesse James in northeast Louisiana