Adjusting bullet impact for a SA revolver

[Logan]

I have a Uberti 1875 Remington that is hitting 3" left at 25 yds.  To adjust the bullet impact I've been told that the rear sight notch should be filed and also was told the barrel needs turning. 

What is the proper way to adjust for windage with these pistols?

Thanks

[Coffinmaker]

My first question would be ..... Are you shooting from a solid rest??  Then I have to explain the gun you have in your hand is not, and was not, originally a target arm.
If your only 3" off at 25 yards with a fixed sight SA, LEAVE IT ALONE.
You cannot turn the barrel in small enough increments to correct for 3" without going 3 - 6 inches the other way.  You can file the rear sight channel and perhaps open it on one side enough to move point of impact 3 inches.  Remember though, at 25 yards, the front sight covers about 5 inches.
Don't loose sight (nice pun too) of the intention the gun was originally intended to group in "minute of man" at around 70 yards.

Coffinmaker

PS:  The most accepted method to adjust point of impact for windage is to turn the barrel a smidge.  When you remove metal from the most expensive part, and screw it up, it stays screwed up 

[h c ramrod]

try shooting the gun left handed and see if you hit to the right of center if you do its not the gun its you tightning your grip as you pull the triger..... lots of shooters do that..........

[rifle]

I remember reading in the gun magazines back in the old day multiple times about the impact of a single action being normal when it hits a hair left all the time. It was thought to be inherent to the design. The rifling twist the culprit I guess.

Of course not all single actions hit a lil left. I imagine the trigger pull is touchy. When I thunk a gun should hit straight and it ain't I re-thunk my "Straight back with the trigger" and do a lil testing with the gun unloaded. The grips are all different and so is every gun even of the same make and model.

I end up finding the right grip to fire the gun that is really straight back fer that gun and the gun most always responds to the modified trigger pull. It could be that thunkin yer pullin straight back really isn't straight back fer that gun.

I'd try a very slight change and pull "straight back" a "lil to the right" to see what happens and then if it works try to remember how that certain gun likes to be shot. Not like compensating but actually finding "straight back.

Modifying the gripand the trigger pull a lil is easier than changing the sights when changing the sights very well may be the "compensating" fer a trigger pull that's a lil off.

A small 3" to the left at 25 paces is easy to adjust even if you are pulling the trigger straight back. Aim a tiny hair to the right.

I had a 1873 single action type revolver that did really in fact shoot a lil left all the time. Like they used to say single actions inherently do. I just modified the aim a lil and started hittin the small things I was shootin at.

Trying too hard can mess ya up too. Get the grip in the web of the hand lined up as close as you can with the bone of yer arm. Having a long trigger finger helps that. The gun needs to be in the web of the hand the right way. Then try what they used to always promote....squeeze the trigger and don't jerk it over. Learn to squeeze sorta fast. Try to get the grip of the revolver in the web of the hand lined up with the arm bone and ....keep the wrist straight with the bone. A cocked wrist for a right handed person goes to the left a lil and lets the gun follow that bend where it weakens the position of the gun and recoils a lil left everytime.

I thunk I'm sayin it right but ifin I'm not the idea comes across.

Try it. Hold the gun as you normally do and see  if the rear of the grip is off to the left and not supported much by the web.
With web/wrist/arm bone all lined up with the arm bone and the grip over to the right more better supported by the web of the hand and lined up with a straight wrist line up with the arm bone. Squeeze the trigger(unloaded gun) and see if the trigger squeeze pulls the gun a lil to the left at the muzzle.

Grip the gun with the three bottom fingers and the "bottom wide pad" of the thumb and pulled tight (but not choking it) press the grip back into the web lined up with the arm bone with the wrist lined up and not cocked to the left a lil.

Don't grip the gun with the top half of the thumb pressed to the frame. Keep the top half of the thumb off the gun.

When you grip the gun leave the trigger finger like it ain't connected to the hand. Like it's separate from the grip the hand is doing holding the gun. Learn to leave the  "grip the gun" with the trigger finger limp till it moves sepatrate from the hand to squeeze the trigger. It's natural to get the trigger finger gettin in on the "grip the gun" and that has to be learned to not happen when the other parts of the hand grip the gun.

If you try this and squeeze the trigger (unloaded gun) and see the muzzle go a lil left then you ain't pulling straight back.
Try agan pulling a lil more back and right and if the muzzle stays straight and doesn't get pulled over then that is the straight back to the trigger.

Then you always do that when you shoot that gun and it will become comfortable and natural when you pick it up to shoot. Yer point shootin will probably improve too.

[Logan]

Thank you all for your replies.  I'm shooting off a bench rest with a consistent grip, trigger pull, etc.  The groups are consistently to the left.  My grip and trigger squeeze feel are what feels natural for this style grip and trigger. I have a flintlock pistol that I can adjust the sights to hit center.  Surely impact of a pistol from the 1870's can be adjusted.  I shot competition in the military and even the thought not being able to hold center target gives me the ebe-ge-bes.   

I do know that the recoil of a weapon on a bench rest is different than when shooting off hand and will the change impact a little.  I will start shooting off hand and see what happens.  These are new guns.

Thanks 

[rdstrain49]

If memory serves-- the front sight is silver soldered in place.  Perhaps re-solder making very small adjustments.  Be prepared to re-blue the barrel when your are done.  The entire process is not for the faint of heart, spoken from experience.

[Shotgun Franklin]

IF the front sight is properly silver soldered in place, you can make small adjustments by slipping a wrench over the sight and bending it.

[rifle]

Yer right about the impact being different from a bench position versas from off hand. Check the groups from the bench and check the impact from the off hand.

Loads fire different in single actions. Bullet weight and powder charge affect the impact. Even right and left. Try a lighter bullet so the bullets inclination to resist centrifical force doesn't twist the gun in yer hand as much.

Since the old gun magazine writers are gone I never read anything bout the single actions inherently shooting a lil left anymore. Like the fact is never mentioned like it's gone away.  Fact is,as was a given known in the past, single actions have an inherent trait of shooting a little left. Some don't fer some reason. Some do.

Ifin you don't want to fiddle with yer gun changing things that might be curing a symtom and not the cause try different loads to see what the gun likes.

Hats off to ya Hombre fer shooting comp in the military but.......you were shooting guns that were a bit different then. The single action is a different animal than a semi-auto type.


The gun yer shootin may be a lil off in it's build at the factory. The frame and the barrel mating may be a few .001's off so the barrel could be mounted a lil crooked,so to speak. It may not be visible to any but the most acute scrutinizers of the type gun you have.

I'd take a look at the crown very closely. It may not be concentric with the bore centerline.

The rifling may be a lil deeper on one side then the other in the barrel since the Italian guns can come that way a lot. The cure is....flat face the crown off the muzzle and leave it that way as long as the flat facing is concentric with the centerline of the bore. A properly fitted piloted reamer needs to be used fer that. A crown to a barrel with irregular depth to the rifling grooves can let the gases at the muzzle erupt from one side before the other moving the bullet some as it enters free air space and is unsupported. Getting rid of the crown to a barrel like that can remedy shooting off point of impact compared to point of aim.


The face of the muzzle being flat faced can let the gas at the muzzle erupt from the barrel grooves simultaneously every time as long as the bullet fits to the bottom of every groove well. Check the size of the chamber throats and the size of the bullets to get the bullets at least .001-.002 inch more diameter than the diameter of the barrel grooves. Lead slug the barrel and measure the lead slug.

That's my two cents worth.

[rbertalotto]

I have a pair of Uberti 1873 colt clones that were both shooting to the left about 3". I put the barrels in my barrel vise and turned them ever so little and got them perfectly centered. Most handguns I find shoot totally different off a rest compared to off-hand.

My 1860 converted colts shoot high at Cowboy Action distances and CAS loads. The front sights are but a nub. Can't file them down any more. Nothing can be done about this but aim at the bottom of the targets.

[Abilene]

...My 1860 converted colts shoot high at Cowboy Action distances and CAS loads. The front sights are but a nub. Can't file them down any more. Nothing can be done about this but aim at the bottom of the targets.

If the gun is shooting high, the front sight needs to be taller.  You are going the wrong way.

[rbertalotto]

Don't you move the front sight in the opposite direction in which you want the bullet to impact.

[Abilene]

Okay, so to impact lower you want the front sight higher.

[rbertalotto]

Sorry for the confusion......on all firearms the rear sight is moved in the direction you want the bullet to go. Want the bullet to go higher, move the rear sight up. Want the bullet to go to the left, move the rear sight to the left.

The front sight is moved in the opposite direction. Want the bullet to go up, lower the front sight. Want the bullet to go down, raise the front sight.

[Shotgun Franklin]

By changing bullet weight you can change elevation. A lighter bullet will strike lower.

[rifle]

The bullet weight sure does have a relation to shooting high or low. Shotgun upthere is right bout that.

Some don't seem to realize that different loads can shoot right or left or center also. Lookin for the right load and finding what the gun likes is cool. Not finding it ain't cool.

I'd start with light loads and light bullets first ifin it was me lookin. I'd shoot the gun with a goodly amount of jacketed bullets first to break the barrel in faster. A gun barrel needs to break in before it shows it's real virtues. 

I can't stress enough that being an Italian gun the barrel has a good chance of having rifling grooves deeper in part of the barrelthan the other part. If a person looks close and has the right light it can be seen at the muzzle if rifling is deeper on one half the barrel than the other. If the rifling is deeper on one part than the other flat face the crown off at the muzzle. That's so the gas comes out the grooves at the nuzzle simultaneously.

Anywhooooo.....shoot the gun and break the barrel in first before doing much else.