"soft" cast lead bullets vs "hard" cast lead bullets - how do you tell?

[1972]

I've got an opportunity to purchase a good supply of 200 grain RNFP cast bullets for CAS.  These are unlubed and unsized, which is just the way I like them so I can size and lube them myself as I need them.  Very nice looking bullets, and the price is extremely attractive,

In reading through a lot of threads on various sites it seems that for CAS shooting the best bullets are "soft" as compared to "hard".  The "soft" bullets apparently shoot better and don't lead the barrel nearly as much.  I have no idea what alloy these cast bullets are.  I will try to find out what the alloy is from the company that casts them, but was wondering if there is any kind of "test" I can give them myself to see if they would be classed as "soft" or "hard"?

What alloy would be considered best for "soft" bullets, and is there any way I can test various bullets to see if they are "soft" or "hard"?

Thanks in advance for any tips and advice.

[Kent Shootwell]

I prefer a bullet cast of 1 part tin to 20 parts lead. This is a soft bullet and as such it will expand when fired to fill the throat of the cylinder and cause less leading. A simple test is to try and groove a bullet with your thumb nail. A hard bullet will get a shiny mark but a soft bullet will be cut.   

[cal44walker]

For most CAS shooting it really doesn't matter if they're soft or hard as the distances are ridiculously short. As long as they are close to bore diameter (preferably slightly above) then you're good to go. Even if they are a mite under bore diameter then the worst thing that might happen is slight leading of the bore. That's if they don't bump up on ignition anyway.

cal44walker

[Ranch 13]

20-1 is a good do it all alloy. The main thing to be a bit wary of with the hardcast is alloys with a good bit of antimony are prone to worse leading at low velocity than soft lead at higher speeds. So the main thing to keep in mind with the lower velocity is no antimony if possible.

[Shotgun Franklin]

The lead mixture Colt used for cartridge ammo was 1 in 16.

[1972]

I see there are some manufacturers who cast a "soft" lead bullet specifically intended for CAS, but most only cast the harder alloy.  I guess in a worst case scenario the harder (general purpose) alloy will only mean some extra cleaning to get rid of the lead in the barrel.

[Ranch 13]

Frank if the bullet to barrel fit is proper, the leading should not be much of a problem.

[PJ Hardtack]

The "soft lead" bullets being referred to are intended for BP use; specifically for .455 265 gr Webley. At least from one maker.

I have soft "soft lead" Winchester 250 gr .454 bullets which are amongst the least accurate bullets I've ever fired. However, they melt down quite nicely into other bullets.

I see there are some manufacturers who cast a "soft" lead bullet specifically intended for CAS, but most only cast the harder alloy.  I guess in a worst case scenario the harder (general purpose) alloy will only mean some extra cleaning to get rid of the lead in the barrel.

[rickk]

At CAS velocities I doubt it would matter much as long as there is some tin and a bit of antimony in there. Since that combo is probably the cheapest form of recycled lead that one can get, that is probably what you would get unless you wanted something particularly hard for high velocity shooting.

If you can just barely make a mark in them with a fingernail, that is what you are talking about. Pure lead is easy to mark with a fingernail, and a really hard alloy (lots of tin and antimony) won't mark up at all.

A Saeco Bullet Harness tester will give you a more quantitative measurement. I have one, but rarely use it. Most of the time my fingernail tells me what I need to know.

Rick

[PJ Hardtack]

I'm with Rick - KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Years ago I was downloading .44 Spl. for a lady shooting my .44 mag Vaqueros, using hard cast bullets. I was getting leading in the barrel throats as the bullets were not bumping up for a good gas seal. Another clue was case smudging.

[Navy Six]

The advice you've received so far is very good, especially the simple act of using your thumbnail to "scratch" the bullet to determine hardness. One thing not mentioned yet is the result of the bullet hitting the steel targets. If the bullet is 20-1 to pure lead, you can find beautifully mushroomed, virtually intact bullets near the base of the steel target. These bullets stayed together because they were soft and expended all their energy hitting the target and expanding. By contrast, the very hard bullets, especially with a high antimony content, when stricking the same steel targets, will break up, shatter, glance off an angled target or some combination of those. The significance of this will be readily apparent if you run the timer during a match or one of the spotters close to the action.
On two occasions, when running the timer, I was struck in the eye by bullet fragments after hitting the target. One was serious enough that the "official" medical staff at the match insisted on sending me to the hospital. Yes, I was wearing safety glasses. There was no permanent damage but next year at my eye doctor exam, the scar was noticed. I was questioned as to how it happened and gave the doctor some BS story as this is NJ after all. I can ALWAYS tell who is shooting hard cast bullets just by the sound they make on the target and I make sure my safety glasses are pulled up tight to my face when it those peoples turn.
This is not meant to disparage anyone making their living by selling bullets. I simply mention these factors to explain one of the reasons why soft cast bullets are recommended for Cowboy matches on steel targets at the distances we normally shoot.  Best regards to everyone   Navy Six