Armi Sport feeding problem / spare part request

[edgalaxie]

Howdy folks,

I've made progress on my problem. First of all, I misspoke in my earlier post (bullet mold for 45 Schofield) in that I have an Armi Sport gun, not a Taylor's.

After taking the rifle completely apart, polishing and deburring everything I've read about in this forum (thanks everyone!) and putting it back together, I still have the same problem. After more careful observation of the feeding problem, I came to the realization that the cartridge keeper spring isn't anywhere near strong enough for the action to function correctly. When I hold the keeper down with my finger (taking care not to pinch it in the action!) and cycle the action, it feeds perfectly. Seems the shape of the bullet and cartridge length aren't really the problem after all.

This is a newer unit with the coil spring and follower for the cartridge keeper. I'd like to put an original style leaf spring in it, as the receiver is machined for one.

Does anyone know where I can get an original style leaf spring for the cartridge keeper?

For that matter, how about the two extractors on the side of the breechblock for 45 Schofield/Colt? I like that system better than the single spur extractor that came with the rifle. It is cut for the side extractors.

Thanks!
Ed

[major]

Just thought I would let you know that the two paddle extractors that came on the 44 Russian and the 45 Schofield don't work very well.  The shell is constantly getting on the wrong side of the paddle and it will jam.  The Lane extractor that is on the bottom of the breach works much better.  I have had both and I prefer the Lane extractor.

[edgalaxie]

That's good to know. Thanks!

The Lane extractor in mine sometimes isn't enough to pull the case free and the gun jams. I reworked the tip of the extractor to give it a slight curve that I hope will add a little extra area when it engages the empty case. When I put the gun back together I also installed a stiffer spring for the extractor. Maybe that will help.

[edgalaxie]

Spring update:

I found a couple of original springs online and ordered one from Lodgewood Mfg. Hopefully an original spring will fit my Armi Sport reproduction. If not, I can use it as a pattern to fashion my own. Making and heat treating leaf springs is not that difficult.

[rbertalotto]

edgalaxie,

I'd like more information on what you are doing to your ARMI to get it to feed properly.

I'm very new to the whole Spencer discussion so some of the terminology you folks are using is foreign to me.

Where can I get a good book or maybe a website that explains the inner workings and identifies the various parts?

My Spencer is a brand new ARMI in 44-40 and it simply isn't feeding properly no matter the cartridge OAL or bullet profile.

The cartridge simply jumps out of the magazine tube and falls to the side in the receiver and jams everything up.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Herbert]

If there is proper spring tension on the cartridge guide it should centrilise the cartridge between the fork of the cartridge guide arms as it feeds from the magizine,if this is not hapening jams are almost certian,with a stronger guide  spring my 56-50 will centrilise the 44-40 cartridge and keep it there as it feeds forward,the 44-40 should work the same,Spencers are very simple actions but that cartridge guide spring must have enough tension.When I work on one now I replace the new coil spring and pin with a V spring copied of the fist AS 44 Russian Spencers,to do this a 6.5mm hole has to be drilled from the back of the frame in line with the cartridge guide opening and at the right hight and angle(really a job for a machinest or good gunsmith)would be much easyer to get a stronger cartridge guide spring or shim the old one

[rbertalotto]

Thanks, I'm going to try a stronger spring to see if that helps.

[edgalaxie]

Update:

I'm finding that there are a lot of things that need to be done to improve feeding. I will post what I've done when it's feeding correctly...which will be soon, hopefully.

[Two Flints]

EdGalaxie,

Just correcting a minor point you made in your very first post . . . All Italian made Spencers are made by Armi Sport/Chiappa Arms . . . Taylor's is just one of two US IMPORTERs (the other is Cimarron) for Armi Sport Spencers.

Two Flints

[rbertalotto]

Very strange...

I replaced the tension spring and made up some fresh dummy rounds to try in the shop. Out of seven rounds in the magazine, three or four would jam.

So I took it to the range just to make it go "bang"........loaded up the magazine and it cycled all seven rounds perfectly!

I loaded the magazine 5 times and it only jammed on me once............Strange!

[Two Flints]

Rob,

Did you work the action differently from how you did it in the workshop, and then out on the range?  Did you change the position of the Spencer, pointing the barrel up or down, when working the action?

Two Flints

[rbertalotto]

Flints.....

I'm sure I was more "deliberate" at the range......These rifles need to be "man-handled" it seems. Going to the range this AM with more rounds. I'm sure there is a break in period required with a new Spencer.

[rbertalotto]

So today I took 100 loaded rounds to the range. Fifty in Black Powder and 50 with 5g of Trail Boss both loads under a 200g lead bullet.

All 100 rounds fed flawlessly! Not one single hick-up out of the bunch! I have no idea why it didn't jam. The action was relatively smooth. I didn't have to really manhandle it. I had to be firm, but not crazy rough.

Accuracy was "OK" but with  a 12-15 pound trigger pull, it was a challenge to get good groups even off a bench at 25 yds. Best group was about 4" but I could see the rifle being pulled off aim trying to break the sear.

Now that I know it is feeding fine it is time to clean up the trigger and get the pull down to 4-5 pounds where I feel it will be safe and much easier to shoot.

BTW..This rifle garnered great "Style Points" at the range. Everyone wanted to know what it was....I let a few other folks shoot it and even they didn't experience any jamming.....YEAH!

[rbertalotto]

I took the lock off and removed the "V" spring. Ground about a pound of steel off the trigger lever. Man that spring was thick! Now I have a nice 3.5-4 pound trigger pull with no push-off. Nice!