1860 Navy Rifle and Bayonet -- Gunbroker

[djossi@yahoo.com]

I wasn't sure if anyone might be interested, but through sheer chance there is an 1860 Navy rifle for sale on Gunbroker.com from one vendor http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=384800796 and a bayonet for the same weapon for sale from a second source http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=383480910. Based on the Marcot book, it appears that the rifle has the necessary fittings for the bayonet and the bayonet is the correct one for the rifle.

Just so you know, I don't have a dog in this fight. In other words I don't stand to make a cent if either of these sales goes through. I also need to mention that the rifle suffers from what I call the "rode hard and put up wet" syndrome -- the rust on the barrel and rear site sure can't be considered patina. Despite the rifle's flaws, this still strikes me as a rather unique opportunity for someone to obtain one of the earliest and rarest Spencer wartime rifles and matching bayonet, an even scarcer commodity. Whether that makes it a wise purchase or good investment, I have absolutely no idea. As always, that's something that's up to the buyer. If there is anyone who is interested, please be advised that both items are covered by a three day return policy.

Again, I only bring this up because I see it as rather a unique situation and would hate to see someone miss this opportunity if it's something in which they have a real interest.

[Two Flints]

Hi Dave,

Don't know if you have checked eBay . . . Spencer Rifle or Spencer Carbine search, as that Navy Bayonet or one similar to it, usually appears for sale.

Thanks for the Gunbroker post.

Two Flints

[Blair]

I have to wonder what makes this poster think this Spencer Rifle a "Navy" model, or related to a Navy purchase?

True, the Navy bought 200 Rifles in Oct. of 1863 (without saber/sword bayonets), but what gives this poster reason to believe this "Rifle" might be one of these?
I know of one of these 200 Army Rifles bought by the Navy, that a good friend of mine owns. I have been able to cross check it through "Marcot's Book", page # 47.

The saber/sword bayonet listed has nothing to do with an American Made "Spencer Navy Model" bayonet.
My best,
Blair

[Two Flints]

Thanks Blair,

Here is info from the Marcot book on Spencer Navy Rifles . . .



Two Flints

[djossi@yahoo.com]

Blair,

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I am guilty on all counts. I tried to make it clear in my message that I wasn't recommending that someone buy these items by stating up front that I wasn't in a position to determine if it would be "a wise purchase or a good investment." It just struck me that having both items offered for sale at the same time by two separate vendors might represent an opportunity for someone who had an interest in that particular combination. I just wanted to let folks know that the two items were up for sale.  Sorry.

[Blair]

Dave,

I don't believe you have to apologize. You were simply the messenger of the two Gunbroker posts. And I thank you for that.
The bayonet post was just incorrect!
The Spencer Army Rifle, if it can be identified as one of the 200 bought by the Navy in Oct. of '63, is a steal at the suggested starting price.
My best,
Blair

[djossi@yahoo.com]

Brill,

I actually thought the rifle was one of the 800+ Navy rifles manufactured under Spencer's first contract with the War Department rather than one of the 200 delivered to the Navy from the subsequent Army contract to which you refer. The rifles built to the Navy design had a shorter forestock and a bayonet lug on the barrel under the front sight so that a sword bayonet could be mounted. In addition, they were assigned serial numbers under 1000 while the Army rifle serial numbers started at 1000. 

At the same time as I posted my message regarding the rifle on the forum, I wrote to the seller requesting the serial number and confirmation that the rifle would accept the sword bayonet.  As you can see from his response below, the rifle is not a true Navy rifle and the ad will be changed to reflect that fact.  I only wish I'd waited to receive his response before posting to the forum.

From: jim@confederateordinance.com [mailto:jim@confederateordinance.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 8:08 PM
To: davej7806
Subject:Question regarding GunBroker.com Item 384800796

Thank you for your question and upon further inspection it is NOT a Navy, but rather a Spencer Army.  I will be redoing the ad tomorrow, and relisting the gun with the accurate information.  I will send you the auction number then.
 
Thanks,
Jim

As to the bayonet, I really screwed the pooch on that one.  Although my research indicated that the bayonet being sold in the ad I mentioned will fit a Navy rifle built for a sword bayonet, it is obviously not one of those manufactured by Collins & Co. that were shipped with the Navy rifles.  I've learned my lesson (I hope!) and will triple check my facts next time.

Dave

[Arizona Trooper]

Just saw a real Spencer Navy Rifle at the Charleston show today. I will try to get the SN tomorrow. It was the only rifle there, and in surprisingly good shape. Several nice carbines were displayed.