Thoughts on reloading for the 1876

Silver_Rings · October 08, 2013, 07:04:20 PM

When I bought my first 1876 (45-60), I didn't know what I was getting into in regard to reloading for it. I found it was a lot of fun developing loads for a round that there was very little data for. I don't believe the 1876 action is anywhere near as weak as many say it is. Having said that, I've gone back to lighter loads for my 45-60 because they are easier on my shoulder and I don't plan on hunting Grizzly or anything else for that matter. As long as I have a load that will hit the 500 yd buffalo I'm happy.

I bought my second 1876 in 45-75 because I had so much fun developing loads for the 45-60. Both of my 1876 are Chappys, so the 45-75 has the larger Italian chamber. I won't list hot loads here that I've developed because I don't want some one using it in a standard Winchester chambered 45-75. Once I've come up with some mild to mid range loads I'll list then here.

OK here are some of my thoughts on reloading for the 1876:

Watching for pressure signs - Loads that are in the range that a 1876 will handle will not show pressure signs. Flattened primers, and other signs like it do not occur until you have greatly exceeded the pressure a 1876 is designed to handle.

I don't know about the 45-75 Winchester chambered round but in the 45-75 I (Italian) a 400 grn bullet will seat past the neck into the case. I don't know that this is a bad thing with lead bullets but I don't like it.

I find it is fun to see how fast I can push the rounds, however shooting the hot loads are not fun for me for general use. The hotter loads lead the barrel more and use more powder as well. A 300 grn bullet at between 1300 and 1500 fps is fun to shoot and capable of taking most America game. In working on loads for the 45-75 with a 400 grn bullet I came up with a load that was only about 800 fps that is mild to shoot.

There is often talk of the bolt or firing pin breaking loose because of hot loads, does anyone have actual evidence of this?

Enough for now.

Silver Rings

larryo_1 · October 09, 2013, 08:28:10 AM

I agree with you on the 45-75. I, too, have the larger chamber. I have worked up a lot of loads but they are, as you say, not a good idea to let out. I also believe that the action is alot stronger than it is advertised to be but that also applies to the old original and probably more so. Several years ago, I got hold of an old side hammer double shotgun. It is a Remington and has Damascus barrels. Made in 1885. I was using it to shoot black powder shells. So one day I wrote Remington a letter to find out more about it. It is a Grade 3 by the way. anyway, to make a long story short they sent me a letter--which I still have--telling me that it is probably not safe to shoot as the metal in those old guns have a tendency to crystalize over time and cause them to explode--black powder or otherwise. Even so--I had gotten a deer and a bunch of geese with it over the years and had no problems but to be on the safe side, I retired that old girl. Just thought that I would pass this tidbit on for those of you that have those original 76's and are thinking of playing with "hot" loads in them.

pinto beans · October 12, 2013, 07:07:11 PM

Mr. Sliver Rings, a while back on a post about taking my 45-75 WCF for a load development session, you had asked if my rifle had a standard or larger chamber. I promised to post up some pics when I got the chance and just never did get back to shooting some until today. Below is a pic of a fired case next to a loaded round. The brass is brand new Rocky Mountain Cartridge cases. While the fired case shows expansion in the neck area, I do not think this is the larger chamber. At least to my eyes it seems to be a standard chamber. The RCBS legacy dies do a great job in loading this cartridge.
My goal in load development, as I have posted before, is to get as close to original ballistics using a 350 grain bullet as possible. The load shown here does a pretty good job of it, just a little under the 1380 fps quoted for original ballistics. Development showed an average in the mid 1350 fps range. The same load today yielded an average over 6 or 7 rounds in the high 1340 fps range. It was a good 15 degrees Fahrenheit cooler today, so am wondering if this could account for slightly lower velocity. It was a small drop mind you and the rifle likes these loads. Only got to run 10 rounds through today but they confirm the sights to the load and the rifle likes this bullet/powder combination. After the bulk of the shots over the chronograph, I set it aside and just practiced with the rifle. The next goal is to move to 100 yards and practice at that range.
I am throwing in a pic of myself about to turn one loose at the target and my small, ancient Thumblers Tumbler that I polish the brass up with prior to reloading. (The small tumbler only manages 10 or 11 cases so I split the polishing up using the two drums I have.) This is just a fun rifle and I am very blessed my wonderful Wife got this early retirement gift for me!!
Sorry it took so long to get this comparison picture up, life has been happening. In about 3 weeks I will be under 2 years to retirement where I hope to be able to devote more time to enjoying the rifle. Hope this image of the fired and unfired cases helps.

PB

doketx · December 17, 2013, 08:36:47 PM

Mr. Silver Rings,
I have a problem with which I hope you can help me, as you are a reloading guru where 45-60 is concerned. I purchased a Uberti 45-60 about a year ago, and my reloads often times aren't burning all the powder. I have used the Lyman 292 grain bullet over 16 grains of 2400 with no problem, but when I try a shortened case with Lyman 405 grain bullets over 12 grains of 2400 I more often than not get a light report and a barrel full of unburned powder. What do you suppose could be the problem? The cases are Starline 45-70, trimmed down to accept 405 grain bullets so the weapon will feed correctly. I guess I should just stick with the 292 grain bullets, or.... What are your thoughts? Oh, and it's not my reloading technique, as my Marlin 45-70 shoots fine with my reloads, same powder and primers. Any help you could give me will be greatly appreciated, and by the way, MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Dave

Silver_Rings · December 18, 2013, 06:31:49 PM

Hi Dave,

Interesting problem you have. My guess is that the 12 grns of 2400 doesn't fill the case enough to be lit off by the primer. A couple of things to try, add filler to keep the powder against the primer, a little toilet paper will work. Another possibility is your crimp is not tight enough to get the powder to burn proper.

A Merry Christmas to you also.

Silver Rings

doketx · December 18, 2013, 07:39:20 PM

Thanks for the reply. I'm kind of leaning toward the crimp issue. I'll try 292 grain bullets with 16 grains and a different crimp. It'll be Monday before I can go to the range again, but I'll sure let you know what I find out. Thanks, again, and again, MERRY CHRISTMAS.

, Dave

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · December 18, 2013, 10:34:59 PM

I know we all have limited time and resources, but how can you pin down what works if you change more than one thing at a time. I would think that loading a few only changing the powder load and test that. Next batch change the crimp.

Heh! All shooting is good, but I try to learn something each time I get to the range.

larryo_1 · December 19, 2013, 11:20:46 AM

I can't keep quiet here so here is my opinions-for what they are worth. First off, I have a Uberti 45-75 with the larger chamber which looks very much like the one in your photo. Now then, one of my most favorite loads is as listed in Ken Waters Book on loads for these rifles. He lists 22.0 grains of 2400 for both the 45-60 and the 45-75. Well, what I did was put a tuft of kapok on top of that powder to keep it near and dear to the primer. Guess what! No unburned powder in the barrel, an MV of about 1350 and a clean shot! The bullet that I use is out of a Hoch Custom mold that emulates the original Win bullet and I cast it at 16:1 which I took off an original box of ammo. Now my rifle likes this combination and does well. The bullet weighs in at 350 grains by the way. Now I don't know if this information will help or not but it has been posted before and nobody has said anything.

doketx · December 19, 2013, 08:15:18 PM

Charles,
I see your point. I'll try some with a different bullet, and some with a different crimp and see which one makes a change. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the big tree that's right in front of me. Thanks again, and MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Dave