Question for the "DAY" 40. cal???

Pettifogger · November 30, 2013, 02:25:48 PM

Certainly that has been done. Ruger sold Vaqueros in .38-40 with and extra .40 S&W cylinder. I thought the topic was about Open Tops. An open top has NO WHERE near the strength of a Colt SAA let alone a Ruger Vaquero.

Slamfire · November 30, 2013, 03:57:24 PM

Sir, Pettifogger, you are correct I was askin about our 72's,,,,,,,because of interchanable barrels & cyl., and I was looking for another ammo that might be usable in our sa. wepons,,,and I did not know about the Ruger combo's. So now I can look elsewhere ,,and I thank you for new knowledge on this subject.

Hootnix.

Seth Hawkins · November 30, 2013, 06:49:17 PM

Quote from: Blair on November 28, 2013, 04:48:23 PM
Seth,

The '72 OT do have a cylinder length that will accommodate a 44-40 cartridge.
The bore dia. difference from .427 (44-40 bore dia.) to .451 (4) of the 44 Colt heel base bullet, is the one factor I would tend to question.
Have you found any bore variations like this in the '72 Colt OT's?
Blair

Blair,

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking if I can shoot 44 Colt heeled and 44WCF interchangeably in the same cylinder and barrel?

Blair · December 01, 2013, 07:01:59 AM

Seth,

I was referring to the original bullet diameters of these two cartridges. Equaling the differences in the bore dia.
I am not sure, but the OT's may not have been in production when Colt came out with their 44WCF '73 SAA's
My best,
Blair

Seth Hawkins · December 01, 2013, 04:13:44 PM

Quote from: Blair on December 01, 2013, 07:01:59 AM
Seth,

I was referring to the original bullet diameters of these two cartridges. Equaling the differences in the bore dia.
I am not sure, but the OT's may not have been in production when Colt came out with their 44WCF '73 SAA's
My best,
Blair

My '72's are chambered to shoot the .44 Colt cartridge with a heeled bullet that's 0.452" diameter.

According to McDowell, there were a few '72's chambered for the 44WCF round "in the field". And I'm pretty sure the OT was still in production when the SAA and the 44WCF came into production. Hell, Colt's was still making the 1860 Army Richards and 1860 R-M percussion centerfire conversions in 1872.

There was plenty of room to convert an original, and there's enough room to do the same to an Uberti. I would do it with a .38 cal modern gun. That way the chambers & barrel could be cut to fit.

I used .38-cal parts when I chambered mine for the .44 Colt heeled for just this reason.

Blair · December 02, 2013, 01:11:24 PM

Starting from a standard .44 Colt change to a 44WCF (38WCF), would require a bbl. bore sleeve or a new barrel bored and rifled. The mouth of the cylinder would remain very much oversized, which does not lend itself to reasonable accuracy. Also the 44WCF has a larger rim dia. than the .44 Colt (or the .44 Russian). The tooth gearing at the breach end of the cylinder would need to be modified to allow for the rim and the hand may also need adjusted to function/cycle the arm correctly.
Yes. The OT cylinder is long enough to allow a 44 or 38WCF (.40 S&W auto) cartridge. But there is more to it than simply re-chambering the cylinder.
Starting with a modern .38/.357 chambered OT would be a good place to start. However, it can be expensive.
My best,
Blair

Seth Hawkins · December 03, 2013, 01:43:26 AM

Quote from: Blair on December 02, 2013, 01:11:24 PM
Starting from a standard .44 Colt change to a 44WCF (38WCF), would require a bbl. bore sleeve or a new barrel bored and rifled. The mouth of the cylinder would remain very much oversized, which does not lend itself to reasonable accuracy. Also the 44WCF has a larger rim dia. than the .44 Colt (or the .44 Russian). The tooth gearing at the breach end of the cylinder would need to be modified to allow for the rim and the hand may also need adjusted to function/cycle the arm correctly.
Yes. The OT cylinder is long enough to allow a 44 or 38WCF (.40 S&W auto) cartridge. But there is more to it than simply re-chambering the cylinder.
Starting with a modern .38/.357 chambered OT would be a good place to start. However, it can be expensive.
My best,
Blair

If you wanted to change calibre's easily, the most logical way would be to have barrels & cylinders made for each calibre you desired. I can't recall the gents name, but someone here has a multitude of barrels & cylinders made for just this reason - to change calibre's at will. It's a really neat concept. Expensive to be sure. But hell, what part of all of this ISN'T expensive. LoL!

FYI - I had my cylinders cut so that I can use anything from 44 Russian to 44 Mag in them. Of course, I would NEVER stick a true Magnum round in them (I'd never put a factory Special round in them, either.). But a Magnum case will fit. I would have to load a very light bullet, or load the bullet very deep into the case to actually use a Magnum case. I can't think of why I'd ever want to use one. But my cylinders can swallow one.

FYI - The "tooth gearing and the hand" don't need modified to accommodate a longer cartridge. If this was the case you would also have to have a hand created for each "calibre conversion kit" that you have for one of these. I already said I can shoot at least 4 different cartridges in mine. I'm pretty sure the fella with the multiple calibres probably had to tune the cylinder ratchet's to each gun's hand, not vice-versa. But I could be wrong. He might have other internal parts that get changed when he does a calibre change. Maybe he'll read this and jump-in with some info on the concept for us.

Slamfire · December 03, 2013, 11:33:14 AM

Seth,,the fellers name is "Flint" ,he has multipul cyls., and barrels ,,,,,a beautiful set-up,and that is what got me to start this thread about the 38/40.40 s&w. See " 72 OT" scroll down to sept.,18,1st.,page.

Hootnix.

Hoof Hearted · December 03, 2013, 08:52:03 PM

I'm confused here.........

This whole thread was regarding shooting 40 S&W in an Open Top because our military might have lots of extra ammo in that caliber.....
Was I asleep up next to the trunk of a tree while our government changed from 9mm to 40 S&W ?
Or is this just a Mo-vember beard joke?

HH

Slamfire · December 04, 2013, 10:32:18 PM

Mr. Hoof,,, maybe I'm the one confused,, but most of the "OHP" ( hwy. patrol),and law officers in my area have switched to .40 cal., and mostly " GLOCKS",also Homeland security,from what i'v read or heard. But ! now that you are here ,my 72 is in 38 spl. sooooo what say you about a 9mm. cyl., in our 72's. Would this still be too much on our frames???

Hootnix.

Hoof Hearted · December 05, 2013, 08:15:16 AM

Quote from: Slamfire on December 04, 2013, 10:32:18 PM
Mr. Hoof,,, maybe I'm the one confused,, but most of the "OHP" ( hwy. patrol),and law officers in my area have switched to .40 cal., and mostly " GLOCKS",also Homeland security,from what i'v read or heard. But ! now that you are here ,my 72 is in 38 spl. sooooo what say you about a 9mm. cyl., in our 72's. Would this still be too much on our frames???
Hootnix.

The 45 Colt operates at less than half the pressure and in the case of the 9mm+P about one third...........neither the steel nor the arbor threads would hold up.

Slamfire · December 05, 2013, 08:39:09 AM

Well again ,I thank you for your needed and heeded advice. This forum ( in my search for knowledge) is a time saver ,and at some time maybe a life saver, again THANK YOU.

Hootnix.

Flint · December 06, 2013, 12:47:38 PM

Looking at the cartridge case dimensions, a 44 Russian chamber would ream out to 44-40 with much less oversize (ridge) near the former case mouth than the 44 Special.

I noted that the three calibers I have in Opentop cylinders, the locking notch is different in depth, the 38 is deeper than the 44, which is deeper than the 45. It may not be advisable to rechamber a 38 cylinder to a 38-40 sized case.