Bottleneck cartridge history?

[Abilene]

I try not to ask dumb questions, but this may be one 

Was the 44-40 the first bottleneck cartridge?  If not, then what/when?

No, I do not own "Cartridges of the World"

thanks.

[Old Top]

Abilene,

I beleive it was the first "modern" bottleneck cartridge, but I will leave it to the experts to let us know.

Old Top

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I try not to ask dumb questions, but this may be one  

Was the 44-40 the first bottleneck cartridge?  If not, then what/when?

No, I do not own "Cartridges of the World"

thanks.

Time to get one;   http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=cartidges+of+the+world&sts=t&x=58&y=10

I don't know the answer but there are some possibilities for the honour; Among military cartidges; 10.4 x 38R Swiss Vetterli (1869) 10.4 x 47R Italian Vetterli (1870)10.75 x 58R Russian Berdan (1868) .577 x 450 Martini-Henry (1871).  For sporting cartridges, the 44 WCF might have it but the .45-50 Peabody Sporting (probably 1873-74) might be in the running along with the .44-90 Sharps (necked)(October 1873)

[Blair]

My guess would be the 56-46 Spencer Sporting Rifle.
Developed at Springfield Armory in 1864 or 5 along with the 56-50.
The idea was to start a standardization program of the large variety of ammunition, then in use, with breech loading carbines and rifles.
My best,
Blair

[Ranch 13]

I try not to ask dumb questions, but this may be one 

Was the 44-40 the first bottleneck cartridge?  If not, then what/when?

No, I do not own "Cartridges of the World"

thanks.

No the 44-40 was preceeded by a couple of decades . There were a host of bottleneck cartridges starting in the 1850's, such as the spencers, then followed some of the larger capacity rounds like the 44-77,43 Egyptian etc that came in the 60's

[Blair]

Ranch 13,

That is very interesting information on bottleneck cartridge cases.
Would you mind if I asked for some documentation?
No need to go back decades, late 1850's should do just fine.
My best,
Blair

[Abilene]

Thanks for the replies, pards.  I thought maybe Winchester (or his engineers) could claim genius for inventing it, but at least they knew a good thing and how to employ it.

[PJ Hardtack]

Here's a few for starters .....

- Cartridges of the World
- Logan's "Cartridges"
- Suydam's "US Cartridges & Their Handguns"
- Greener's "The Gun"
- Seller's book on the Sharps
- "The British Soldier's Firearm" by C. H. Roads
- "Eley Cartridges" by C.W. Harding

Ranch 13,That is very interesting information on bottleneck cartridge cases.
Would you mind if I asked for some documentation?
No need to go back decades, late 1850's should do just fine.
My best,
Blair

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The earliest British bottleneck cartridge I could find in my COTW,3d Ed. is the .500/.450 No. 2 Musket, from "the early 1870's"

In the same publication, the .56-46 Spencer is shown as being "introduced" in 1868, but it must have been developed earlier. I can't see when bottleneck sporting cartridges were introduced in Europe, but several Sauer cartridges look quite old but no dates are shown.

The earliest centerfire bottleneck round I could find in COTW is the 10.75 x 58R Russian Berdan adopted in 1868. At least it seems the idea is very likely American