#12 birdshot in pistol brass?

[Darto]

speer #14 manual has loads listed for using birdshot in pistol brass for 38 special, 357 mag, 44 mag, and 45 long colt. The data is for using their Speer plastic shot capsules to hold the shot.

These capsules are expensive and very hard to find.

Can I safely use the same charge loads shown in the Speer book without using the shot capsules??

By using for instance this youtube method:



(I'm just going to try these for fun, sort of..., no real serious or competition purpose).

[Blackfoot]

Without the capsules you won't be able to get much shot in over the powder charge and wad.

Blackfoot

[Pettifogger]

I have been doing it like in the video since the 1960s.  Only difference is I use a card overshot wad and secure it with glue.

[Darto]

Thanks all much obliged, partners.

Yeah the capsule would increase capacity but on the other hand the Speer manual specifies 150 grains of shot. And in the video where they don't use capsules he says he is using 160 grains shot. So I don't have load data to increase shot capacity with the capsules.

Anyways the Speer manual says 5.7 gr Tightgroup and 150 grains shot in the capsule. I can't find the capsules for sale anywhere even online. So I presume without the capsules I could use 5.7 Tightgroup and 150 grains #12 shot?

It's hard for me to start experimenting, first I have to get the tiny shot to see how much fits in the case.

Reason I wanted the capsules was to protect the barrel from leading.

[Montana Slim]

I've loaded shot with/for C&B and cartridge pistols, but only used black powder, packed newspaper and/or hand-cut cardboard wads.
Dragoons hold a nice charge. I also have extended length brass I made from 455 gates super-mag (?) for 44-40 and 357 maximum cut down for 357 magnum guns.

Slim

[Darto]

Montana, did you ever hand up cardboard and 'pattern' shot loads out of your C&B civil war era revolvers? I'm wondering it throws a decent pattern at close range?

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  Actually they're pretty cheap at around $8.00 per box. The .38's come 50 to a box and the .44 and .45 25 to a box. I've had a box of .38's for a good while and have used them loaded with #9's on many rattlesnakes. I bought a box of .44's awhile back from Midway, but these days I carry a .45 Colt mostly. Capsules were impossible to find until a couple of weeks ago when I found a box at our local gun show.
But prior to finding the 45 capsules, I loaded shot and ball as follows:

Size and prime and empty 45 case. Charge it with 5.5 grs. of something like Red Dot, 700-X etc. Using a sized .45 case cut some wads out of something like heavy plastic such as a lid off a coffee can or a milk jug, or you can use thin, sturdy cardboard, thusly:



Push this down on top of the powder. Now fill the case to about 1/8" of the neck with shot (I use #9 robbed out of skeet loads) and seat a .451" lead ball over the shot a little past halfway of the center of the ball, then crimp it firmly into place.

Now you have a really fun ball and shot load. I've shot this load at 15' or so and the ball hits almost to the sights of my Vaquero and the shot pattern is plenty tight for snakes.

If you're not interested in the lead ball, just fill the case almost completely with shot and put a gas check or one of your cardvoard or plastic wads over it and crimp it. BE ADVISED- if you don't somehow seal or glue the overshot piece in place, it WILL come out under recoil if you're shooting heavy bullet loads in your revolver.

Here's a couple of targets shot with these loads:

[Montana Slim]

Montana, did you ever hand up cardboard and 'pattern' shot loads out of your C&B civil war era revolvers? I'm wondering it throws a decent pattern at close range?

Yup..but I was 15 or 16 when patterning on paper. Recall 8-10 ft or so was my max effective range.
Since then, I've loaded in my Dragoon and taken out small critters around the barn. a slightly larger volume of shot ihas shown best overall recipe. I've only used black...type of wadding had little effect.

Slim

[rickk]

As one of the people who worked at the long since defunct "BBM"... a company that made .45 ACP shot cartridges....

We did a LOT of testing on handguns and shot.   The Speer shot cups will improve things tremendously. It will increase the volume of shot (you dont have a lot of volume to begin with), It will keep the shot out of the barrel groves (reduce leading), and most importantly, it will hold the shot column together longer and tighten up the pattern.

Shot out of a revolver is pretty much a short range proposition.

We did make a custom 1911 barrel with an 8 inch long screw-in rifled compensator. The rifling was straight, not spiraled. It stopped the shot column rotation and also vented some of the gasses before the shot left the end of the barrel.  It helped a lot but was not exactly cheap or very practical on a carry gun.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

FYI- As of this morning Midway has .45 caliber shot capsules in stock.

[Darto]

Thanks, CHT, I ordered some capsules today.

Midway ordering tricks:


The code ORDEROFF15 takes $15 for $100 or more.
The code ORDEROFF5 takes $5 off for $25 or more.
Adding any cheap 'free shipping' item into the cart reduces shipping from $13 down to $8 (try it it works ...

Such as this useless blowgun quiver guard for $1.69
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=3&itemsperpage=20&dimensionids=4294843297&statuses=200

[Grapeshot]

I might be late with this, but here goes.  drop your powder charge of what ever powder you are using.  push a gas check, open side UP down the case as far as it needs to go so the shot charge will fill the case to just under the mouth.  Then seat a gas check open end down to just below the case mouth and crimp.  The shot charge will stay put and the crimp will keep it that way.

[Baltimore Ed]

Years ago, I made .45 acp shotshells out of .308 brass, #9 shot and a 410 wad. RCBS makes a die set to build these. The ones I made cycled in my 1911 just fine. In a 45lc I would use the 410 wad trimmed a little shorter than the case mouth, filled with shot, place a piece of thin plastic over it and crimp slightly. Then put some clear nail polish on it to seal it. Made a good snake load when I was hunting.

[Delmonico]

Found out years ago,Elmer was right as always, just use a bullet, if the snake is a real danger just point, shoot in one motion and the snake does the aiming.  Only had to do it so far on a couple of nasty black rat snakes around our buildings, one who thought he owned the outhose.

Figure it would work for rattlers also if need be.  Don't have to worry about having a shot load when you need a bullet either.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  I have a SA strapped on most of the time I'm outside and this is about the time of year I take one of the bulleted cartridges out and replace it with a shot load. The shot load is always first in line to be fired, with the remaining five bulleted loads following. If I need to shoot a hairy critter, I just cycle the hammer twice, thus bypassing the shot load.

  If memory serves, I "only" killed three rattlesnakes last year around the house and parts beyond. I've killed them with bullets before, but most of the time they don't sit still and wait for you to take careful aim.

A few years ago I flipped over a big water trough and found this:



...that'd be grumpy Mrs. Diamondback and her brood of 17 young 'uns. At the time I only had an old 9-shot H&R .22 with me, so I dispatched the big one and a few of the little ones. Had to club the rest with a mesquite stump.



  ...ah life in the country...

CHT