Rusty water dye problem

[Slickshot]

I made some rusty water to dye my belts instead of using vinegaroon.  But the stuff in no working; any thoughts or ideas as to why not.  Purchased the leather belt blank from tandy the other day.


Slickshot

[Massive]

You might find something on this page to help.

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/MakingHOGRig.html

Look low down.

I was wanting to bring this up because of the reference Will makes to the gray look he was after.  I wanted to get some of that also, and just wondered what people were getting.

[Camano Ridge]

Slick when you say it is not working, are you not getting any coloring at all? How long have you had the iron in the water. Do you have picture of what your leather looks like after?

[Red Cent]

Is rusty water supposed to work?

[Camano Ridge]

Red Cent yes, see will ghormleys link scroll to bottom of page to iron barrel he shows results and discusses how to do it and the results you get.    http://www.willghormley-maker.com/MakingHOGRig.html

  I did it once and it worked fairly well but the color change did not happen as quick as vinegaroon.

[Massive]

Welll, it works for Will..  But it isn't identical in look to what you get with vinegar, with just a touch. Slower I guess.  I know with wood, which like leather has tannin (in certain species), you have to be careful about any steel and water, and it will go jet black.  Knives in racks, you can also see halos of black around nails.  Will has a large barrel, which allows the parts to go fully in the barrel, but he heats the water which is a bit inconvenient.  He says the parts do go completely black with enough time in the tank.  Presumably the only difference is concentration.

[Slickshot]

Yeah, I kept it in the rusty water overnight and did not change the color of the leather at all.  It seemed like the pigment separated and sank to the bottom of the pan I had the leather soaking in.

I thought the Rust would chemically react with the tannins in the leather, but did not.

Back to the drawing board for the fourth time on this stuff...  Vinagerooon in much easier to work with but you must neutralize it with a baking soda bath afterwards.  Then olive oil to make sure the leather doesn't dry out.

Thanks...any more inputs are appreciated.

[David Carrico]

They make black dye people. Why re-invent the wheel?

[ChuckBurrows]

 no re-inventing rather re-discovering - vinegar/iron blacking has been used for a very long time and IMO after comparing it to the commercial dyes for 50 years feel it is the best blacking available and especially appropriate for period goods
easy to make and easy to use and absolutely colorfast unlike commercial black dyes (and I've used them all) especially when using period finishes...

[David Carrico]

This is true. When I first started I wanted to "do it like they used to". It seemed like I was always adding iron or adding vinegar. I had more important things to spend my time on . When you examine old leather goods, where is it rotten at? Where the iron hardware and rust has eaten up the leather. And now we are going to soak the leather in rusting water???

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

I'm a student of Chuck Burrows on this one, and find the old ways of coloring/dyeing leather is far better for my needs than the commercial offerings, I've been using them now since 2006, and have had great results with them, Rusty water is one I cant comment on but all the nut and black Vinegaroon dyes I find far superior, IMHO, I know only time will tell, but with people like Chuck Burrows and Will Ghormely  behind them and their use, ( proper use ) I feel comfortable using them, I do understand why David Carrico and Cowboy WC, and many others that are in a time frame for getting their work finished prefer the readily available dyes , for me I'm not in a hurry , but it's always nice to have choices....


   tEN wOLVES

[Massive]

Yeah, I kept it in the rusty water overnight and did not change the color of the leather at all.  It seemed like the pigment separated and sank to the bottom of the pan I had the leather soaking in.

I thought the Rust would chemically react with the tannins in the leather, but did not.

Back to the drawing board for the fourth time on this stuff...  Vinagerooon in much easier to work with but you must neutralize it with a baking soda bath afterwards.  Then olive oil to make sure the leather doesn't dry out.

Thanks...any more inputs are appreciated.

Slickshot, what are you trying to achieve?  Is it mainly to avoid the neutralization step?  There are other objectives a person could have like getting the "look" that Will mentioned; having a cheaper source; having a larger barrels to dunk say saddles into, etc...

If you simply want a product that does not require neutralization, then there are two things that might work.  One is to search out the chemical formula that that does the actual dying, it isn't rust, and it isn't acid (I don't think).  It's ferous nitrite or something.  Searching in this forum and online will reveal all.  The acid and iron are just a means to that end.  In the US you can order the chemical online, and go directly to the blackening, and skip the whole acid step.  

Another option is to let the acid sit long enough and chew through enough metal, and monitor the PH.  I think over time it gets a lot less acidic, again there is info on this online.  The second part of that is that I don't personally believe the low residual acidity of the V is such as to require neutralization with soda, which can itself burn the leather.  I think abundant water is all that is required.

By the way...  Are you heating the water.  Will mentions boiling to distribute the suspension, and using warm water for the "dying".