sizing die for uberti '60 army conversion

[Little Dalton]

Ok, guys. Hopefully recieving my new pair of .45 colt Uberti 1860 Army Conversions, and am trying to get together some components to load up some ammo charged with the holy black. I've read that the specs on Uberti .45 colt barrels say a groove diameter of .450. Can I trust this, or should I wait to buy a boolit sizer until I've slugged the bores? Also, newbie question: How much larger than the bore should the boolits be?

[Stillwater]

Ok, guys. Hopefully recieving my new pair of .45 colt Uberti 1860 Army Conversions, and am trying to get together some components to load up some ammo charged with the holy black. I've read that the specs on Uberti .45 colt barrels say a groove diameter of .450. Can I trust this, or should I wait to buy a boolit sizer until I've slugged the bores? Also, newbie question: How much larger than the bore should the boolits be?

If you are planning to reload for any cast bullet firearm, you should always slug the barrel.

And, you should also measure the cylinder throats. I've see cylinder throats that were as much as .005 under the barrel bore diameter. If the cylinder throats size the ball/bullet down to where it's under the barrels bore diameter, your accuracy will can be atrocious.

In an ideal world, the cylinder throats should be .001 to .002 over the bore diameter of the barrel.

I try to size my cast bullets a minimum of .001 over bore diameter and prefer them to be .0015 over bore diameter.

I use Star lubersizers, and get my sizing dies made to my specifications from the various people that custom make them.

You don't have to be as fiicky about it, as I am. However, .001 minimum over bore diameter will will cause your cast bullets to shoot well, if everything else is in good working order.

Bill

[Coffinmaker]

I'm with Stillwater on this.  Slug the bore.  Boring tool wear and the factories often change their minds.  You really don't know what your gonna get.  I personally like bullets bigger than the bore.  I don't, however, buy bullets of different diameters.  I go with one size that's bigger than all, ad rider all my .45 bullets sized .452.  I am careful as well to insure the cylinder throat is not under size  to the bore.  My cylinders are all cut to .4525.  All my cartridge .45s shoot very well with those dimensions.  It's also a good idea to cut the forcing cone in the barrel to 11 degrees.

Coffinmaker

[rifle]

Good advise fromthose Hombres up above. Personally I like throats that are .001 to .002 in. over groove diameter in the barrel.
Different guns can like different things but they all seem to like a bullet that is right at or .001-.002 in. over groove diameter fer lead bullets. That goes fer cap&ballers too.
What''s good is.....the barrels of the 45's seem to almost always have .451-2 in. groove diameter. Some go in half .001's too. Like .4515 ect ect .
I thunk it best to stick with pure lead fer these conversions of the old guns. Hard cast bullets aren't needed I'd say. Neither are jacketed bullets. Both can be used if the pressures are in the "CowBoy load" range though.
Anywhoooo....an Hombre can get an economical set up to cast pure lead bullets and get to shootin easy enough.
Buying the store bought ammo means using the hard cast bullets fer I guess they almost all use them in the commercial made ammo.
Slugging the barrel of a new gun is a good idea as is measuring the chamber throats to see what the gun has and whether or not that's gonna be acceptable.

[Little Dalton]

Thanks a lot guys! 'Preciate the help. I received the guns, decided wich one to keep, and had to do all kinds of work to it. First off, the firing pin was waaaay too long, and literally needle-sharp. So, this idiot shortened it too much in trying to fix it. Not wanting to have to wait on a new firing pin, I removed the pin, heated it, drew it out, reshaped it, and retempered it. Works like a charm. Don't know how long it'll last, but I guess we'll see. Next, I slicked up the innards a little, and realized that the stop/bolt was not reliably locking the cylinder. At the end of a cocking cycle,  the bolt would pop back out of the notch, and the cylinder would over-travel. So, I fixed that. Required some work on the hand, and some very careful reshaping of the bolt. Then, the hand developed a problem. It got boogered on the inside of the top tooth, and would bind on the web between teeth on the ratchet. So, again, not wanting to wait on a new part, I built the area up with my mig welder, and carefully reshaped it. Works fantastically. 
Ok. Back to the original subject.  I slugged the bore on this revolver, and the groove diameter is an even .451. I measured all the chambers, and they were all around .454 to .457. So, looks like all is well there. I'm casting my own 250 grain semi-wadcutters at .452, so I hope that will get me by for now.

[Coffinmaker]

I don't know what your using/planning to use for powder, nor how "authentic" you really want to be.  For the CAS game, I "personally" think your going a little heavy on your bullets.
No guns were ever converted to .45 Colt from an 1860 frame.  Nothing larger than a .44 Colt.  250 Gr bullets can be a little abusive on a conversion frame.  I would strongly suggest switching to a 200 Gr bullet (max) and a moderate powder charge  or just plain 'ol BP.  Your guns will last much longer and your wrists will thank you after every match.

Coffinmaker

[Coffinmaker]

Almost forgot.  Before you get to far down the road, check the Barrel to Arbor fit and correct it.  It's the single most important thing to "get right" on any open top type gun.

Coffinmaker

[rifle]

Good idea bout the barrel/arbor fit with a converion especially shooting heavier bullets than the 140gr. ball meant fer it. A 200gr. wouldbe good.
The chambers being .454-.457 is a lil outta wack if we're talkin chamber throats. The .454 is actually a lil big compared to the .451 barrel groove diameter. The .451 barrel would like throats no bigger than .453 to get enough room to use a .452 or .453  bullet without too much friction getting out the throat. Ideal would be .452 throats consistantly.
The .457 is too big. It'll hurt accuracy in those chambers. Maybe not terribly bad if pure lead bullets are used. I'd mark the .457 chambers to note if they are too inaccurate. If so I'd be gettin with the retailer fer a replacement.  Probably wouldn't get it but worth a try.
A bullet entering the forcing cone a lil canted from too much room in the chamber throat enters the barrel at a cant deforming the bullet some and the  bullet goes thru the barrel canted some and then enters the air with an off balance spin to it causing some "yaw" to the bullet and hard fer it to stabilize on it's axis and fly true.
The biggest hullet you'd want to use to minimize the problem would be .453 I'd say.
Anywhoooo....believe me that if a chamber troat is too big fer the bullet the bullet will cant when pushed thru the throat and enter the forcing cone canted. Doing the forcing cone to 11 degrees if it's not too big already and taking the reaming to what is considered too deep in order to lengthen the focing cone to try to funnel the bullet into the rifling straighter might help things if the accuracy of the revolver is just not good enough.

That's my two cents on the subject fer all it's worth.