trigger backslap, overtravel

[JP Anderson]

I'm doing a major workover of my beloved Pietta 1860 Army. I'm installing Kirst Konversion and my homemade ratchet hand wouldn't work so in the process I'm replacing it and tuning/timing the rest of the action.

I like to shoot bullseye to keep practiced up for decapitating our rattlesnakes that try to live to close to the house. The 1860 has a ton of overtravel in the trigger that worries a bullseye shooter. I've done some searching and can't find much on correcting this so I thought I'd ask this bunch.

Thanks in Advance

JP

[cal44walker]

Well, the simple answer is to add a trigger stop of some kind. Something like a very small set screw on the trigger itself that would limit the overtravel. To be honest an 1860 is never going to be a bullseye gun and such a modification probably won't help much in the big picture. As a bullseye shooter you should probably be more worried about the open top frame arrangement, the poor sight picture or the slow lock time of the heavy hammer. The trigger overtravel problem is pretty minor comapered to these other issues. Personally I'd live with it as it is and just practice to get used to that particular guns trigger movement.

cal44walker

[Fox Creek Kid]

...The 1860 has a ton of overtravel in the trigger that worries a bullseye shooter...

 Are you possibly confusing take up (or "creep")?  I see no way how overtravel on a SA revolver could be a concern as no one shoots one like a 1911 nor a DA revolver. SA revolvers don't have a rebounding block such as do modern DA revolvers.

[JP Anderson]

Thanks all. I'm talking about the free play after the hammer lets loose rather than the creep before. Mine has very little creep but lots of flop post letoff. Cal44Walker has the normal solution though I think from what little I've found it's usually added inside the frame on SAA types or done with JB Weld (yuk) inside the frame. I had a private post from Brian regarding trigger length that has me thinking. Or I may do nothing as I shoot it pretty well the way it is.

My other Bullseye pistol is S&W Model 41 so I have a good comparison for punching paper. I'd always been told that the 1860/SAA/Blackhawk couldn't be shot super accurately offhand because of the slow lock time of the heavy hammer.

I bought the 1860 as a cheap canvas to practice engraving with no care as to how it shot and then fell in love with the dang thing. I like the way it balances and the long barrel. I shoot it as well or better than my 1911 or S&W. For pure accuracy and maximum potential score the Model 41 will win but the 1860 is no slouch. On long range shots of 80 yards on pop bottles filled with water it's by far my favorite. The other night in percussion mode while testing the new front sight my wife, the better bullseye shooter, put 4 out of 6 shots into a ragged hole at 20+ yards. She called her other two shots to <1/2".

Mostly we like the sound and the big old clouds of smoke.

Thanks for the input.

JP

[Lefty Dude]

Curious as I am;

What load and powder are ya shooting in that 1860 C&B Revolver ?  Also what lube & Wad if any ?

[JP Anderson]

28-30 grains FFF, TC Bore butter on top of the bullet, Lee Cast .451. The switch to Bore Butter and the Lee mold made big difference. I lightly tap the cylinder on the loading stand to settle my powder before seating the bullets as even as possible. I was about to try using wads when I broke it down for the Kirst Konversion. I'm hoping it's as accurate when I'm done. If not I can always slip on the old percussion cylinder.

[JP Anderson]

The Lee .451 mold may be a little small as I shave very little lead. I read the same place that recommended the 28 grains FFF you want to shave ring of lead off the bullet. They also recommend a wad and I'd had used them but I didn't have any on hand. It is shooting well but the Bore Butter ahead of the bullet is messy. I plan to do plenty of testing and practice after the conversion and I'll post the result good or bad.

[Lefty Dude]

Thanks for the reply.

My Belgium 1860 Centaure is in the process of being fitted with a Thuer conversion cylinder. The load it likes is also what you use.

I bought a wad punch from Buffalo Arms and cut a card wad for over the powder. I use a paper milk carton. On top of the card I use a felt wad soaked in Bore Butter. I place the felt wads, (100) at a time in a small zip-lock bag with a table spoon of Bore Butter. Place in the microwave for about 20- 30 sec., remove and nead the Wads with the Bore Butter.
With the card wad over the BP, this keeps the lube wad from contaminating the powder.

For CAS/SASS I use APP( BP Sub), ball on top, no wads or lube, cap and shoot.

[Coffinmaker]

You'll fins that a trigger over-travel stop on SA type guns often causes the trigger to engage the half-cock notch, stopping the hammer travel.
NOT a recommended modification.

Coffinmaker

[JP Anderson]

I was wondering about that.

I appreciate the advice.

JP

[rifle]

A good trigger stop is on everyones hand. The trigger finger.
Train that finger to be independent of the rest of the fingers and to not jam the trigger back as far as it will go.
Just train the trigger finger to stop short of pushing the trigger all the way back till it stops. That can make the trigger finger pull the shot one way or the other I thunk.
Or train the trigge finger to go all the way back as far as the trigger goes but don't apply any pressure once it's back. Don't use the trigger finger to grip the gun.
Just my two cents worth.
Some one mentioned having a Belgian Colt 1860 Army converted to Thuer. They ain't known fer being real accurate. It's the way the untapered bullet heal gets ill seated in the tapered case.
Gotta straighten a lil of the tapered case to hold the bullet straight or.....have a mould made fer a bullet with the heel part tapered to match the taper of the case. I would do that to straighten out the problem. Then make a simple piece of metal with the right size hole in it to set the loaded cartridge into base first and tap it a lil where the size of the hole would tighten the mouth of the case into the heal of the bullet. Then tap it up out of the hole. So the bullets would be snug in the case.
The original patent had the opening of the case walls parallel not tapered and the chamber to match that sothe bullet went in the case straight and in the chamber straight but.....when the guns were built they left the whole chamber tapered and the case tapered and stufed a bullet with parallel sides to the heal into a tapered case. That's why they weren't as accurate as they should have been.
The looks of the special cases Uberti made for their Thuer seems like they were designed to get the bullet seated straight in the case.
Anywhoooo...gotta be careful about the way the Thuer is made so it's accurate.