bullet diameter for original 45-60

Jack Wagon · September 06, 2013, 05:44:46 PM

I see conflicting information on bore diameter for original 45-60 Winchesters. Is it .454 or .457 ? Thanks JW

Trailrider · September 06, 2013, 06:31:43 PM

The answer is "YES!" In point of fact, the groove diameter is probably closer to the .457", but the only real way to tell is to slug the bore. If this is an original '76, the barrels varied all over the place, but were in the .457-.460" range. I'm not sure what the replicas have, but probably .457.

Jack Wagon · September 08, 2013, 06:54:01 PM

Trailrider, We're talking about an original gun, made in 1883. I have some .458, 300 gr. lead bullets I was thinking about using in it. I guess I'd better slug the bore first. Thanks JW

Trailrider · September 08, 2013, 07:11:34 PM

Quote from: Jack Wagon on September 08, 2013, 06:54:01 PM
Trailrider, We're talking about an original gun, made in 1883. I have some .458, 300 gr. lead bullets I was thinking about using in it. I guess I'd better slug the bore first. Thanks JW

They'll probably work, but I'd slug the bore and make sure the rounds will chamber with the .458" bullets loaded. Best of luck!

Jack Wagon · September 09, 2013, 05:07:04 PM

I carefully knocked a .490 round ball down the barrel and got a measurement of .452. I guess a .452 or .454 bullet would be a start. I made a dummy round with cut down 45-70 brass and a .454, 250 gr. bullet. It seemed to feed and cycle fine. JW

Trailrider · September 09, 2013, 07:11:28 PM

Whatever's right! As I posted earlier, the barrels on those old Winchesters varied all over the place! Have fun!

Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks · September 09, 2013, 10:40:42 PM

Trailrider-
I have both (replica's) Uberti and Chaparral in 45-60 caliber. Both of these rifles slugged out at .458. For the past 2 years I have been shooting bullets with a diameter of .458 with fairly good accuracy at 200. But I started using bullets with a .459 dia and I am finding that I get a much better or tighter shot grouping than I did with the .458 bullets. I cannot speak for all replica's, I am sure they will all vary. I have had 2 different barrels in the Uberti and both of these barrels slugged @ .458 (factory barrels).

Jack Wagon · September 25, 2013, 12:23:51 PM

I re-measured the slug and still got .452? I shot some .454, 250 gr. through the 76' and got barrel leading and poor accuracy. I cleaned the barrel and shot a .458, 300 gr. bullet. It shot true and clean, and no signs of trouble. I continued to shoot 50 rounds of .458, 300 gr. loads through her with no issues. What a blast! JW

Buck Stinson · September 25, 2013, 06:04:44 PM

I've had many original .45-60's over the years and almost all of them slugged at .456 to .457. The largest diameter on a rifle barrel in in the middle. It is always a good idea to gauge your measurements from the center of the barrel on original guns. The only 1876 Winchester I've ever had with a .454 bore diameter was an original Mountie carbine in .45-75 shipped in 1885. Go figure. My originals range in serial numbers from 654 to 63,142, which is near the end of production I have never owned or reloaded for any of the reproductions.

Jack Wagon · September 27, 2013, 04:21:20 PM

Buck, That's interesting, I knocked the slug all the way through the barrel. I wonder if they used progressive rifling on these old guns.
This gun was made in 1883 and it was obvious by testing it preferred the .458 bullet. JW

Buck Stinson · September 28, 2013, 06:09:59 PM

You always want to go .0001 or .0002 over bore size in these old guns. So I'm not surprised that the .458 would be the one with the better performance. Another thing to keep in mind, is the condition of the bore. If the bore is on the rough side, stay away from soft cast bullets. You'll end up with leading that is hard to remove from a rough bore. I always cast very hard bullets for all of my original guns, bright bores or rough. My casting is done at 16 to 1, lead and tin. Wheel weights are mostly antimony and can cast a very brittle bullet, so I never use this material. I always use pure lead and pure tin. Hope this will help.

larryo_1 · September 28, 2013, 07:02:29 PM

Buck:
Even tho my rifle is a repro, I-to- do all my casting at 16:1. My rifle seems to like that the best. I make my own alloy so know what is in it. I got my alloy data off the back of an old box of 45-75 ammo as a factory recommended alloy. Since mine is a 45-75 it works for me. And mine are sized to .458.

Jack Wagon · September 29, 2013, 11:49:22 AM

Thank's guys, sounds like good advise. JW

Buck Stinson · September 29, 2013, 03:18:51 PM

larryo,
I have a funny story to tell about one of my first experiences reloading for the .45-75WCF. I bought my first 1876 Winchester when I was a freshman in high school. It was a real nice carbine in .45-75. I wanted that caliber, because I already had several empty cases, a Winchester bullet mold and spoon handle Winchester tool in that caliber. Along with the carbine, I bought a full box of Winchester .45-75 factory loads in the earlier "Centennial" box. I too, had been intrigued by the loading info label on this original box, so I melted my lead/tin mix and cast a handful of bullets. In reading that reloading label, I noticed that it said to lubricate bullets with "Japan Wax or Pure Tallow". I decided to go with the tallow...........big mistake. Found a half pound at a butcher shop in Kalispell and proceeded to hand lube my bullets. To make a long story short, this was the messiest reloading endeavor I have ever had. To top it off, it was over a week before I could get out to shoot the carbine and test my "hand made" black powder ammo. By that time the tallow had turned on me and the whole thing smelled so bad, I could hardly load the gun without choking. I must say that my ammo worked pretty well all things considered. That was almost 50 years ago and I haven't used tallow since, for anything.

larryo_1 · September 29, 2013, 07:21:41 PM

That is good! I use a mix of 50/50 Beeswax and Water-pump grease. Got the idea for that from Les Bauska back in about 1960-61 or so and have never changed. Use it in both rifle and pistol. I have tried some other concoctions but always come back to that recipes A cousin of mine--John Taylor had gave me some of his recipes years ago but no longer use them either and besides we lost him last year to cancer so I can't bug him for more data on them. That lube that I use even works for Minie" ball lube in my old musket.

Buck Stinson · September 30, 2013, 10:18:36 AM

I didn't realize that John was your cousin. I think it was E.G. Smith who first told me John was sick. Then another mutual friend called me when he passed away. You also mentioned Les. Seems like every passing year, someone else is missing. It would be just like him to recommend water pump grease. Something old fashioned, cheap and easy to find. I use a 60/40mix, beeswax and Anhydrous Lanolin with about 2 tablespoons on olive oil to keep if from getting sticky. It has always works well for me, but I might try the 50/50 you're talking about. I don't shoot long range, black powder cartridge anymore, but your mix sounds like a good one for the Winchesters. Hope all is well.

larryo_1 · September 30, 2013, 10:48:33 AM

Buck:
Thanks for your note. I use that mix in all my firearms including black powder. My only concern is that maybe that stuff may get hard to get one of these days. I think that the only places you can get it anymore is CENEX and NAPA but I still have a lot of it from my dad's supplies back when he was farming here and I probably won't live long enough to use it all up. With the beeswax, I just use toilet wax rings and that works just fine. But--even that sometimes is hard to come by. Have a good'un.