Identification of units having Spencers

[smittyc7]

Hey All,

Is there a way to check whether my original Civil War unit was issued Spencers?  The two regiments are 2nd North Carolina Mounted Infantry and 3rd North Carolina Mounted Infantry.

Thanks!

Dave

[Sean Thornton]

I was thinking that the 3rd were armed in part with Henry repeating Rifles.

[Two Flints]

Pulled this comment from another web site . . . not sure if it helps any

"I had several members of my family in the 2nd and 3rd NCMI, and from some of my research at the national archives and the few surviving pictures of the soldiers, I can tell you that they were a very irregular unit. Most of the fighting that they did was "bushwacking" C.S. Home Guard and pro-C.S. civilians. They were considered by the C.S. Government as little better than bandits and sometimes they were worse than bandits. The name of George Kirk struck fear into the hearts of many civilians in Western N.C.

Another thing to keep in mind is that they almost NEVER fought together as one unit, it was much more common for them to be patroling and bushwacking in smaller groups. Also, for alot of the time, esp for the 2nd NCMI, the regiment was never fully mounted, and when it was mounted, it wasn't with an "issue" horse, it was with stolen horses and mules from pro-C.S. civilians.

Weapons: Going through the Nat. Archives and the deserter lists, I found out that the unit was equiped with both Spencer Rifles and regular Springfield Rifle Muskets. But there is one picture of the Kirk brothers with Henry Rifles! There are a couple of photos of enlisted men with pistols, but they may or may not be props. I have never seen a record of anybody but officers having sabers. As an aside, there is one story of how George Kirk was able to buy Spencer Rifles for his unit by selling stolen goods from his raids into N.C. but I don't know if this is true. Equipment and Clothing: Most of the clothing would have been federal issue, I see alot of sack coats in the archive records but a dress coat pops up now and then. There is even one photo of an enlisted man wearing an odd-trimed Mounted Service jacket. Hats are a bit of a different story, as the only photos I have seen of enlisted NCMI troops has them in civilian hats with otherwise regular federal uniform coats and trousers. As for equipment, the records show all the usual gear issued, including knapsacks and overcoats. The big question is what gear was issued with the spencer rifles, those guys who got regular Springfields got the usual leathers to go with it. But I still have no idea what came with the Spencers.

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[Sean Thornton]

Colonel George W. Kirk was detailed by General Burnside to organize the loyal mountaineers of East Tennessee and North Carolina. The following is an interesting use of the Henry where a small amount of men, twelve, can make a huge difference. There were four hundred rebels at Stackhouse’s store and another four hundred rebels in the woods. Here is what the Colonel has in mind for the rebels. “Let Major Rollins get the men under arms at once, and station all of them in the rear of this house, except a small squad that he shall post on the hill to observe any movement of the rebels in the woods. Meanwhile, I will take a dozen men that I know, and who know me, mount them on our best horses, each one with two sixteen-shooters, two revolvers in his belt, and two in his holster and will light down on those sleeping fellows at Stackhouse’s. We will steal upon the sentinels, and secure them without noise, and then remount, and move softly till we are between the rebels and their arms, when we will swoop upon them with such yells and firing as well make them think us a whole regiment. Woke out of sleep by such a din they’ll scatter to the four winds---all that are not winged by our carbines or revolvers. Having done that we’ll toss their stacked arms into the river, and gallop, back here, and help you to whip the other four hundred.”….. Before two o’clock Colonel Kirk, with his twelve picked men set out up the river, and by half-past three, he returned, having carried out his programme in the minutest details, without a man so much as wounded. Meanwhile the four hundred Confederates, whom he had rightly judged to be posted in the woods in his rear, hearing the firing, had moved forward, and engaged the force under Major Rollins. The conflict was at its height, when Kirk returned with his twelve men, and rushed impetuously upon the flank of the Confederates. Probably supposing that his small squad was merely the advance of a larger reinforcement, they fled in all directions, leaving twenty dead, and upwards of thirty wounded upon the ground, and losing a hundred prisoners in the pursuit that followed. This, one of the most brilliant of minor conflicts of the war, was the last of civil strife in Madison county. The Union forces in the following spring, with Colonel Kirk, and Daniel and Reuben Ellis among them, drove out the Confederates from all the mountain region, but the clash of arms did not come near the blood-stained district which has been the especial scene of this history.”  Colonel Kirk chose twelve men for special duty because of the fact that they would be armed with superior firepower by having Henry sixteen shooting rifles. He states that they each would carry two of the sixteen shooters, this is a little puzzling to me but that is what the 1889 source states. At any rate with two Henry rifles and four revolvers those twelve men would have been a force to be reckoned with.

[Two Flints]

Info on Spencers . . . Kirk was so affective that by the middle of 1864 Kirk had been given the rank of Colonel and officially given permission to raise a regiment from the unionist in Western North Carolina which became the 3rd Regiment North Carolina Mounted Infantry.  This regiment was made up primarily of deserters, renegade Cherokees, and “Home Yankees” that served only when needed.  With proceeds from their plunder Kirk purchased Spencer repeating rifles for his men, that gave them a big advantage over the Confederates, who were using single shot muskets, and he provided mounts for them with horses stolen from the area.  His first assignment, after raising only 2 companies was to operate in the rear of General James Longstreet’s Confederate army in eastern Tennessee and destroy as much of his supplies  as possible along with destroying any means of transportation available to his army.

See entire article here:

http://scvcamp229.org/terror.html

Two Flints

[smittyc7]

I know these stories, and while rooted in fact, much embellished by spin doctors as still occurs today.  I am hoping against odds to find records that specify what weapons they were issued.  Kirk didn't have the personal funds that I know of to buy weapons, but time has muddied the record.  My original unit was 2NCMI, which Kirk was a part of and he did branch out and form his own regiment, but he had orders to do so.  You might find this fun to read, from an original member of the 2nd.  http://www.2ncmi.org/rem.html

Thanks, Dave

[Sean Thornton]

I know these stories, and while rooted in fact, much embellished by spin doctors as still occurs today.  I am hoping against odds to find records that specify what weapons they were issued.  Kirk didn't have the personal funds that I know of to buy weapons, but time has muddied the record.  My original unit was 2NCMI, which Kirk was a part of and he did branch out and form his own regiment, but he had orders to do so.  You might find this fun to read, from an original member of the 2nd.  http://www.2ncmi.org/rem.html

Thanks, Dave

For official records you could check with the National Archives of the US for the war records. I have 2 sets of reels of microfilm that I think are from the 4th quarter of 1863 and 1st quarter of 1864. These list the different regiments and what they were armed with during the quarter. The problem with checking the official records is that they do not reflect privately purchased weapons such as the Henry Repeating rifle. The 1st DC Cavalry was the only US regiment that were issued the Henry Repeating rifles but many more regiments and private soldiers purchased their own. Spencer rifles and carbines were generally purchased by the government and issued to regiments.  However there were also private purchases of Spencer also.  There is the picture of Kirk with the Henry rifle. Where it came from is unknown. It is very doubtful that it would have been a prop in a photo studio.