Made some vinegaroon

Boothill Bob · June 07, 2013, 12:31:35 PM

Howdy pards.
I made some vinegaroon with 1gallon wight vine vineger and a patch of steelwool. I heat it up, set a side for two weeks, heating again ang put a side for two more weeks. It makes the leather pitch black, but half the steelwool is not solved and it smells a lot of vineger and iron. What have I missed???

//BhB

Mogorilla · June 07, 2013, 12:59:08 PM

To my understanding, you have missed nothing just make sure to neutralize the leather with baking soda/water (weak solution). It is just a reaction in process, but you have enough Iron acetate in solution to react with the tannins. It is an excellent black.

Boothill Bob · June 07, 2013, 01:06:00 PM

Quote from: Mogorilla on June 07, 2013, 12:59:08 PM
To my understanding, you have missed nothing just make sure to neutralize the leather with baking soda/water (weak solution). It is just a reaction in process

I have neutralize it, directly when I took it up. Shell it dry first before neutralize?

Massive · June 07, 2013, 01:50:36 PM

Since neutralizing is risky for the leather, I would not do it until I was sure the colour was right. That might mean letting it dry. But once you are sure about the colour you are getting, then you can afford to neutralize it right away.

As far as your process is concerned if you are getting black then you are OK. Depends on the leather you use, sometimes your results are a lot to do with the tanin levels in your leather, as they are to do with the mix. But assuming you use the same stuff all the time, that shouldn't be a problem. Apparently you can leave the cap off your bottle to let the mix breath and the vinegar smell will abate. Assuming you had the oil off your steel wool, then the fact the steel is not gone means you got as much out of it as was there to get.

This guy used some V to blacken his stock. I really like the look he got. I gave him the tip on using V for the stock, so it is just the stuff we normally use.

Boothill Bob · June 07, 2013, 02:19:02 PM

Thanx massive. So its just to mix baking soda and water and smere it to the project and then wash it of under the tab?

bedbugbilly · June 07, 2013, 03:19:59 PM

Bob - I've tried making the vinegaroon out of both cider vinegar and white vinegar - and like you, it still smells. I made a batch of it (1 gallon) a year ago this past winter when I was in Arizona. Instead of steel wool, I just buy a pound of "common" nails (these are uncoated) and dump 'em in. When I left a year ago this past April, there was a lot of the nails left but you could tell they were slowly dissolving. When I got back there this past January, I was surprised to find most of the nails dissolved.

That batch was made with white vinegar. It gives me a very deep black but I still have the odor problem even after neutralizing. I think some of my mistake in regards to the odor is that I've kept the jug capped. From what little I've read on it and from the comments on here, I think you have to keep the jug open and let it breathe to help get rid of the vinegar odor. I say this both as a statement and a question.

My work area in AZ is in my garage and I have been more concerned about it getting knocked over and spilling if left uncapped. When I get back, I am going to uncap it and make sure it is where it won't get spilled and see if letting it open to the air helps with the odor. I think if a guy can lick that problem, you've got it made 'cause it sure does work well for black dye.

Boothill Bob · June 07, 2013, 04:13:49 PM

Just got a tip from one on Facebook that uses a lot of vinegaroon. She just puts vinegar in a container and a lot of steel wool, then she just let it stand with the lid a little open, no heating. When its ready to use she just strands what she needs through an old t-shirt and put the "scrap" back in the container and just fills it up with more vinegar.. Have to trye that to..

Massive · June 12, 2013, 12:50:20 AM

I just wash it in water. Leather is supposed to be acid, so the soda can harm it. The tanning agent is tannic, acid as you know.

Presumably the reason the nail dissolution rate goes down is because the acidity has gone down. At some point the acidity of the mix shouldn't be much worse than the acidity of the leather. Apparently the acidity of leather is around Pp 4, the same as tomato juice. The pH of vinegar is 2.9. Lemon juice is 2.3 Water is 7 with O hydrogen ion activity. It is a logarithmic scale so the activity of pH 3 and 4 are quite different. Perosonally i'm guessing that water is enough to drop the concentration level of the vinegar to the level of the leather.

bedbugbilly · June 12, 2013, 05:56:46 PM

Massive - thanks for those tidbits of information - greatly appreciated! Chemistry wasn't my best subject in school.

In regards to the odor - I think my dye is so strong in that regards because I keep the container capped. I'm going to change that when I get back to AZ and see if that doesn't help. I really love the deep black that the solution gives - but I don't like my work smelling like string bean pickles!