Double barrel Shotguns/Self Contained shotgun cartridges

[cowboyjared]

Ok I have scoured the internet trying to find when the self contained shotgun cartridge came into major use. My next question is, why do current manufacturers make their double barrels based on the 1878. Is there someone that makes a double barrel based on an earlier model without it being a black powder gun.

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings my good  cowboyjared -

your first question
"when the self contained shotgun cartridge came into major use"
is unfortunately too vague: "major use" is heavily dependant upon "who" and "where".
Those who lived in more remote frontier regions , being scantilly supplied, would have relied on ML not only due4 to the ability to tailor every load to the situation, but also because they could not afford to depend upon some one else for more cartridges to arrive at some unknown delivery time.

A rough idea of timeframes can be obtained by examining patent dates.
Whilst they were invented in 1833, "In General" pinfire shotshells were commercially available and in wide use amongst he well-to-due in Europe and the East Coast by the late ~ 1840's, when the pinfire cartridge was improved by Benjamin Houllier (Paris) . Their use declined after ~ 1860's when cetnerfire shells became prevelant. After that a variety of centfire shotshells were introduced, but pinfire shotguns continued to be produced and sold into the 1870's.

Needless to say, pinfires are not overly popular with CAS shooters.

Yoiur second question:
"why do current manufacturers make their double barrels based on the 1878."

I expect due to popularity and the small market. The 1878 is a reliable boxlock design, relatively easy to manufacture, and there is a limited market of those wishing to buy a hammered smoothbore.

Your best bet for alternatives is to search the aetherwaves , especially GunBroker, Guns America, etc...

yhs
prof marvel

[Pettifogger]

Ok I have scoured the internet trying to find when the self contained shotgun cartridge came into major use. My next question is, why do current manufacturers make their double barrels based on the 1878. Is there someone that makes a double barrel based on an earlier model without it being a black powder gun.

As noted, pin fires came first and saw VERY limited use in the U.S.  The first centerfire shells like we are use to seeing came out in the late 1860s and early 1870s.  Is there someone that makes an earlier model that is not for BP?  No.  The 1878 Colt was an early model with a strong design and because of the hammer placement is popular with CAS shooters.  Even it has been discontinued.  When the current batch imported by Cimmarron is gone there won't be any more.  I have handled several original doubles that were slightly earlier than the 1878 and they were not strong designs and even with modern steel might not hold up to smokeless pressures.  The biggest reason, of course, is that there is virtually a zero market for and earlier designed double.

[Abilene]

...When the current batch imported by Cimmarron is gone there won't be any more...

Yeah, people said that about the previous shipment, but a new one came in last month and there are hundreds in stock.  I think they have plans to keep them coming.

cowboyjared, even this chinese '78 copy is beefed up considerably from the originals, but that is so that it will handle 3" modern smokeless shells.  An original '78 with 30" barrels actually weighs less than the Chinese copy with a 20" barrel.

[Pettifogger]

Yeah, people said that about the previous shipment, but a new one came in last month and there are hundreds in stock.  I think they have plans to keep them coming.

cowboyjared, even this chinese '78 copy is beefed up considerably from the originals, but that is so that it will handle 3" modern smokeless shells.  An original '78 with 30" barrels actually weighs less than the Chinese copy with a 20" barrel.

Good, the last time we talked it looked like there weren't going to be any more.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

My main references are;
1. THE GUN and its Development,  W.W. Greener
2. The American Shotgun, David F. Butler

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,45473.0.html

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,45446.0.html

[litl rooster]

1878 remember this is Cowboy shooting not Civil War era shooting. Not the cowboys didn't carry grandpa's old shotgun around with them.